BTM S1E28 Shaunna Lee

[00:00:00] Welcome to be on the microphone, a podcast about podcasters and the stories of how their shows came together, grew and what they discovered along the way. I’m your host, Adam Baroum. So, you know, with each of these episodes, I like to kind of talk about some topic and podcasting before we get into our guest interview today.

Adam Baruh: So I’d like to talk about something that all of you podcasters listening have done, which is you took a leap of faith. And leaps of faith are extremely important in terms of how we grow, how we grow as a person, how we grow as a professional. Um, it takes a lot of emotional courage. Um, I, I could tell you that. You know, prior to, you know, maybe about 10 years ago, maybe a little bit longer. That, that was kind of like when I took my real true first leap of faith. And, and it was a big leap of faith [00:01:00] for me. Um, that leap of faith is when I left my very secure IT software development job and decided to become a wedding photographer with.

Zero experience. I didn’t even have a good camera. Um, but, a friend of mine asked me, you know, if I would shoot his wedding, because he couldn’t afford a budget, you know, a big budget photographer, and I was happy to do so. I, I had never even expressed An interest in photography. I liked it, um, certainly, but, uh, never really expressed an interest in it.

But I did, I wanted to do well for him, so I bought a nice camera, and I did a lot of research, and I practiced a lot. I had some time before the wedding, and, um, afterwards, it was, I really liked it, and so I kind of Turned it into a career, which I did for 10 years. So that was leap of faith, number one. And, you know, like all of you listening, I mean, for, for me to, you know, when I became a podcaster, that was a huge leap of faith because I don’t [00:02:00] like to be front and center on the camera.

Um, Surprisingly, I, I don’t, my older brother’s an actor and I was always happy growing up because he liked the attention. He was very extroverted and I was happy with that. Um, but, you know, podcasting just kind of came to be for me out of a healing journey that I had. You know, I felt that the message I wanted to convey was pretty important.

So, you know, really without any podcasting experience, I decided to become a podcaster. Um, that’s not an uncommon story, but it is a story about leaps of faith. And, you know, again, I commend all of you listening for, for doing so. And don’t be afraid. To do so again at some point in the future. Um, maybe podcasting, you know, is just kind of the tip of the iceberg for you.

That’s going to open up some larger, other opportunities and doors. So always be willing to get yourself out of your comfort zone, practice that emotional courage, and [00:03:00] really be curious about what the leap of faith might teach. So anyway, with that, let’s go ahead and introduce our guest here today. I will say that what piqued my interest primarily about this guest is that her name is Shauna Lee, which is also the name of my wife, although that’s my wife’s first name and middle name.

But, uh, Shauna Lee is the host of the podcast. Start again with Shauna Lee. Leaving the world prettier than I found it. One person at a time. Shauna says, let’s navigate life after heartbreak to discover your true passion and purpose. I’m here to remind you that it’s never too late and you’re never too old.

Shauna’s words. She’s a best selling author with a wealth of experience leading women through their own start again moments. She offers one on one coaching and self paced online courses, and also writes books and hosts two podcasts, including the Start Again with Shauna Lee that I mentioned. Her work centers around body mind soul alignment, falling in love, and learning to monetize your gifts.

[00:04:00] Start Again boasts an exceptional 5 out of 5 rating and approximately 59 published episodes. Sean, I welcome to be on to the microphone.

Shaunna Lee: Thank you so much for having me. Yes, I, I did remember that your wife has the same name as me. Um, what a, what a funny way to introduce, um, myself, but yes, Lee is actually my middle name. And, um, if I can start with a story, uh, the reason I use Shauna Lee as my name is because I have been married and divorced three times, which means I’ve changed my last name.

A lot. And when it came time to write my book, I thought, oh my gosh, what name am I going to use? And so I decided to embrace my middle name, which I hated growing up, and decided that that would be my pen name, Shauna Lee. So here I am.

Adam Baruh: It works. Um, my middle name is Frederick. I think Lee is definitely, I would take Lee over Frederick. In fact, um, I think I was like in [00:05:00] second grade. Out of Frederick, I also didn’t like my name Adam, um, and so out of Frederick, I just told all my friends one day, I’m like, I’m going to just go by Rick now.

And so I tried to get everybody to call me Rick. It didn’t really stick. Um, no pun intended or no rhyme intended. But, uh, but here we are today. Um, So, I, I will tell you that, you know, I, I kind of share that experience with you. Um, I was married before, I have two older kids from that marriage, I’m married again right now.

Um, it’s, it’s a journey, that’s, that’s for sure, and you know, for me, certainly, I, Talking about leaps of faith, I mean, this was probably the biggest one for me, and I’m curious, you know, your, what your journey was like, and if there are some similarities here, but, you know, the first, so when I got divorced from my ex wife, I would say the first three, four months, just an emotional rollercoaster.

It was terrible. I mean, I was crying all the time. I just, it was [00:06:00] such a sad

Shaunna Lee: It is

Adam Baruh: thing, even though, I mean, Even though I was happy to be separated from my wife, um, I was sad for my Children. Um, I didn’t really know what that was going to look like for them. Although I come from a divorced family, I didn’t want their experience to be anything like mine.

Um, but then after about three or four months, Something kind of awoke in me like a recognition that this was an opportunity now for me to reinvent myself

Shaunna Lee: Oh my

Adam Baruh: and have new opportunities and again, going back to leaps of faith, I kind of made a conscious decision to I was very kind of, I sheltered myself and I was very picky my whole life with food and stuff like that.

In fact, I had never eaten seafood ever. I was

Shaunna Lee: Oh, wow.

Adam Baruh: fish couldn’t do it. Um, but I, I made a very conscious decision to get myself. Out of my comfort zone, like explicitly and whether somebody, a friend of mine was going to [00:07:00] offer an experience to me that was maybe a little scary or a food. And so like literally the day I made that, I kind of put that out in the universe. Buddy of mine who incidentally was the same buddy who was getting married and got me into wedding photography. But he, he was going out

Shaunna Lee: of yours.

Adam Baruh: yeah, like he pretty influential person, but he was going out for sushi and he’s like, Hey, you want to, you want to come for sushi? And I remembered my rule that I made and I said, absolutely.

And so we went and I fell in love with it immediately. So I’m curious, like for you, um, you know, and going through the divorce yourself, like, are there similarities there? Are there discoveries that you made just going through that process?

Shaunna Lee: yeah, yeah. And I love the intro conversation because it so aligns with everything that I write about in my book and the reason, coincidentally, that I started my podcast. Um, so you call them leaps of faith and I call them start again moments, but we’re talking [00:08:00] about the same thing, right?

So it’s, it’s these moments where you get the opportunity to say yes to something, which Oftentimes feels very scary and it’s certainly uncertain and you don’t know where it’s going. Um, and I think that’s where the leap of faith kind of concept comes in. I started my podcast after I wrote my book. Um, because my book is really, um, it’s a guide to how you put your life back together, but not what it was before.

And so it’s really about giving people Um, permission to dream big and empowering them that you get to choose and seeing this, this um, future in front of you as the opportunity that it is, that you get the opportunity to do something different, bigger, better than whatever you had possibly even dreamed before.

So the book is really a guide to kind of living your best life and what the heck do you want that to look like? Um, and then [00:09:00] my podcast, I started it because And, and I, it took me a little bit to kind of hone in on this, this concept of starting again, because I’m like, we’re not starting over necessarily, because you’ve got all this experience you’re bringing to the table.

But it really was just starting something new. And, I have all these conversations with amazing people on the podcast and they have started businesses. They’ve written books. They have started dating after divorce. They find love again. There’s all these, these avenues that we have to starting something new at a point in our life where we feel like, Oh my gosh, is it too late for me to do this thing?

Did I miss the boat? Am I too old to be interested in doing this thing? And it’s, it’s all hogwash as they say. And so that’s the mantra of the show. It’s never too late and you’re never too old to do the thing that’s been calling you.

Adam Baruh: I love that you should actually, I don’t know if you’ve, um, if you’ve heard of the podcast, I am this age with Molly cider, but, um, your kind of tagline is similar to [00:10:00] hers. It’s like exploring. Um, and it’s more hers is more targeted towards like people like after 40. Um, you know, whether, you know, you’re finding yourself with your kids growing up or whatever it may be, but there, there, you know, we can’t ever.

Yeah. I don’t know. I guess maybe in my 20s and my 30s, you know, I, I felt like I was working towards something and that that would be it. Like when I found my career or whatever it may be. And then, you know, that was it. But, you know, here I am at 50 and I, I kind of, uh, what I’m, what I’m thinking now, um, is that really the biggest trait that we could gift ourselves is curiosity. And I’m curious. No pun intended there or whatever alliteration. Um, I, I’m curious for yourself, like where curiosity may have entered in your own life. And, you know, is that something that you’ve always had? Have you always been kind of [00:11:00] interested in just, you know, renewal, like renewal of self? Um, or is curiosity something that maybe came to you a little bit later?

Shaunna Lee: I’ll tell you, um, I’ve always been a seeker of knowledge. So, um, early on in my life, early I felt like, oh, I’m going to be a student forever. I’m going to go on to get a PhD. I knew I loved learning and then I got tired of academic life and needed a break. Um, but what I’ve realized is it’s a deep seated curiosity that’s driving me to understand.

I I find people fascinating and, um, I could probably study human beings for the rest of my life and never get tired. Um, so I think what curiosity has done for me, though, is allowed me to drop this aspect of my personality that I’ll call the shadow side of my personality. I have been a super judgmental person my whole [00:12:00] life, judging others, judging myself mostly.

Um, and so when I was able to just get curious instead, when I met with a situation where I have a instinctual, very strong reaction, I’ve taught myself to then just get curious. That’s interesting. Why is it bubbling up this emotion? Um, and it allows me to Here’s how it served me well after, uh, my divorces.

Uh, it’s allowed me to try to understand where the other person is coming from, if I get curious about what’s motivating them to have this reaction to me or, you know, whatever the case may be. I think curiosity is one of the best things that we can do for ourselves, is just to get curious. It allows us to drop the judgment and, um, it just feels a little more lighthearted and a fun approach to the world.

What the heck is going on, you know?

Adam Baruh: Yeah, certainly. And, you know, while for me, [00:13:00] I always try to remind myself to kind of stay in that state. It’s, it’s, you know, life is a roller coaster, um, and, you know, so I’ll find myself kind of going into my shadow place, um, which is, Filled with negative self talk and self judgment as you described for yourself.

Um, do you use tools like journaling or mindfulness or, or, you know, something to kind of snap out of it and bring yourself back to that more kind of curious flow state?

Shaunna Lee: Yes, uh, the short answer is, I think every conversation I have, I talk about this. Meditation and journaling have become core components for me in those moments where I’m feeling emotionally volatile or, um, easily frustrated, impatient with my kids. Whatever way that I’m showing up how I don’t want to show up as my best self.

Um, usually I can come back to one of those two things to kind of [00:14:00] re center me to where I want to be and how I want to show up. Today it was meditation. Amazing hour long meditation, which, had you told me three years ago that I was going to meditate for an hour and it felt like five minutes, I would have said, you’re crazy.

Uh, that’s not possible. Um, but those two things have really been instrumental for me. I, I find journaling really, a better way for me to practice what I want to hone in on. So you have to create a habit. I think just creating a habit is hard enough. Um, but journaling lets me practice how I want to show up.

It lets me think through a future scenario as if it’s already happened. I get to practice gratitude. Um, there’s all sorts of really beneficial things to, to journaling, but um, I think both of those bring me back to that. centered place where I can be in flow and approach things more curiously. Is that

Adam Baruh: yesterday I went and and saw somebody just kind of like a counselor, um, coach type person and I was [00:15:00] talking about just, you know, how anxiety has been kind of present in my life for a while. I know and I’ve spoken publicly on various podcasts and this one like where that comes from. Um, but you know, just knowing it isn’t really enough to kind of keep it at bay.

Um, I used to suffer from really bad panic attacks, which came on just, I’d never had one in my entire life until about 47 years old, just

Shaunna Lee: They’re so scary.

Adam Baruh: then it got worse, but I kind of have it mostly under control right now. But you know, sometimes it does show up again. And uh, so I was speaking with this person yesterday and she’s like, you know, you kind of have to just.

Approach the work that you need to do to keep it at bay as if it’s, you’re taking your medicine each morning and you know, I’ve had people kind of tell me the same thing, but in kind of different ways, but just the way that she kind of described it in that way that, oh, it’s just my medicine. So. Yeah, I don’t need to feel like the thing that was hard for me is I know that I need to do the [00:16:00] journaling and exercise and get out and go for a walk with my dog and those things re center me, but I’m married again.

I have two younger children. The youngest is almost four. And so there’s this guilt thing like when I. When I want to take time for myself, um, you know, I want to make sure that that’s okay with my wife if I’m leaving her with the kids and, and often I don’t ever even ask her like the guilt is overriding where I just suck it up and I say, you know, there’s just, it’s too problematic.

Um, but when she reshaped this concept where it’s just your medicine, like, I don’t, I, it kind of made me feel like there’s a, there’s a way to do it guilt free where. Look, my wife wants me to, to, you know, have less anxiety and she’s supportive. And so if I’m just like, Hey, well, got to say, I’m going to do my morning journaling.

Like I know she’s okay with it now because it’s my medicine that I need. [00:17:00] Right. Um, I’m curious for you if you’re willing to kind of open up and maybe talk about it a little bit. Like you described the self judgment, um,

Shaunna Lee: Mm hmm.

Adam Baruh: that comes from for yourself?

Shaunna Lee: Oh, well, where it comes from, uh, the same way as any inner credit comes from, uh, it’s our, our childhood. Everything stems from how we formed our beliefs as a child when we hadn’t fully formed if we were going to be, um, so yeah, a lot of my, uh, childhood was quite tumultuous and as a result, I became a very judgmental, very controlling type of a person.

Because I was seeking security and stability, and that was the way I learned as a child, that it felt safe. Um, so the more I could control, the safer I felt, um, and that also comes with that inner critic that we all have. Um, I’m taking this positive intelligence course right now, and it’s all about, he calls the inner critic our judge, [00:18:00] and we all have the judge, and we all have these saboteurs, and they’re all these different aspects of, Our personality that are attempting to keep us safe.

That’s where they all come from. It’s just that we get to a point in our life where it no longer serves us the way it did initially and we get to look at it and we get to say, okay, this is how I’ve been doing things. It’s not working for me anymore. I’m going to choose to embrace the sage aspect of who I am, which is this higher self version.

But he talks about the judge the most because we all have the judge within us, that inner critic that is the loudest saboteur and Yeah, mine is an ugly, mean girl. She’s quite biatchy.

Adam Baruh: Well, something I’m super fascinated about is the nervous system. Um, I, I used to have a podcast called the change, which was focused on servant leadership and mental health. And I had the pleasure to interview a guy named Seth lion, whose wife, Irene lion runs, um, a program called a smart body, smart mind.[00:19:00]

Yeah. Pretty sure that’s the name of it. Um, which is all about nervous system regulation over, you know, I don’t know if overcoming trauma is the right word, but like learning to live with your trauma and you know, forgiveness and increasing our own capacity. And they’re also somatic healers. And so how has forgiveness like for yourself, how has that shown up in your life?

Shaunna Lee: Um, oh, forgiveness. It’s a tricky one. Um, I will tell you, um, for learning to forgive others was the first step for me, and it’s never easy, but it’s so worth it. Um, the minute you realize that forgiving the other person is really a gift to yourself and has nothing to do with them is the day your life begins.

Um, but learning to forgive yourself, that’s a whole different beast. Um, for [00:20:00] me, it’s interesting that you tied that in with, uh, somatic healing and Overcoming trauma because I think it’s all related, right? So learning to love the inner child within me is what let me be compassionate and Love myself and forgive myself.

I think the the bigger part is the ongoing forgiveness so we we continue to be human and mess up and Not get stuff right, right? But being able to say you know what? You know, the first way I learned this was with my children, actually. So, I have four children, ages nine, sorry, ten. She’s ten now, to twenty nine.

And, so I’ve been a mom for a long time, and I learned early on that when I could own my mistakes to my kids and say, I’m so sorry I raised my voice, that’s not how I want to respond to things. Um, it let me show them and model. One, [00:21:00] apologizing when we mess up, which is so valuable. Um, but really just that I’m human and I still make mistakes.

So you shouldn’t expect to be perfect and you should also expect that you’re going to make mistakes. Um, but when I could own that with my kids, which these are my most favorite humans on the entire planet. Like I love them more than anybody else. So when I could model for them and love myself in front of them.

That was really what taught me how to kind of begin that process, and it is a process, and it is a practice, and it is a journey.

Adam Baruh: Oh, totally. It’s, it’s ongoing forever. I’m, I’m right there on that same boat right now. Like something that I’m continuing to try to work on is my self defense. Like when I get dysregulated from my kids, I also have four kids ages 24 to four. So I’m

Shaunna Lee: a lot.

Adam Baruh: right in right there with you. Um, but when I get triggered, um, cause I had, I definitely had a rough childhood.

I grew up with a [00:22:00] single mother and, um, yeah. You know, lots of trauma there, and I, I find myself getting triggered and dysregulated, um, out of emotional regulation when they start fighting or whatever it may be between my younger kids. Um, and something that I’m really trying to be mindful of now is, like, finding when I’m going in that direction, maybe trying to catch it.

And maybe because my, my self defenses are always what goes up first, right? And I’ve had a really hard time apologizing, but like what you say, I mean, the power of apology is so huge, especially modeling that for kids. And so I’m. So happy that you touched on that because it’s something that will always be a process.

I, I don’t think like, like even for me to voice that, it doesn’t mean that like now I’m going to be like perfect. Like I’m going to screw up time and time again, but trying to learn not to beat myself up over it and just know that I’m [00:23:00] doing my best. And you know, I, my two older kids are, they, they’ve kind of turned out pretty good.

I at least know I can rely on my track record of delivering successful, you know, adults into the world.

Shaunna Lee: Yes.

Adam Baruh: But I wanted to circle back to because you mentioned about like the self sabotage, the saboteurs that live within us. Have you ever heard of Samantha Jay? She’s an author. Um, she, she just, yeah, she describes the, um, self saboteur within us as well.

Um, her, the one book, and I, she’s got like three or four of them out and I want to read her newer one, but the one that I really liked was Stand Up, Speak Up. And, you know, she describes These self saboteurs that live within us and the struggle with that, like the fight with that saboteur within us Trying to get to a place where we embrace that self saboteur And we know that they’re gonna live there within us like side by side and and when they [00:24:00] show up, it’s just like oh there They are again Okay, go sit down in the chair.

You know, I’m gonna have a conversation now like Learning to live with that self saboteur. I’m curious your perspective on, you know, have you found yourself more fighting against that self sabotage or have you come to a place where perhaps you’ve, you’ve embraced that part of your, what you described also is your shadow self, your

Shaunna Lee: I will say through the the course of this course. Um, what I have learned to do, because, um, he brilliantly has us practice this each day, where at the beginning of the day, you’re going to focus on one at a time, and there’s a whole handful of them. Um, controller is one of mine, and so I can kind of sit at the beginning of the day and think, okay, what scenarios, what situations do I have ahead of me today?

Where do I think the controller is going to show up? And what do I think it’s going to look like and how do I preemptively [00:25:00] practice how I want to behave, respond instead. And, um, then at the end of the day, and you have these touch points throughout the day to kind of practice, but then at the end of the day, you look backwards and you’re like, okay, did I get it right?

Did I get it wrong? How did I do? And give yourself kudos for one on how much progress you’re making because we always. Um, so really taking ownership of what you did well and the progress you are making, but then when it went wrong, so. Let’s say I, I did lose my temper and I raised my voice with my daughter because I had to tell her 18 times to put her shoes on, whatever the thing is, I can sit there and go, okay, this was an instance where I didn’t show up well and I wanted to be more patient and I could have brought my sage self to the conversation, like, and then you practice that and you practice how do I redo that situation in my head, visualize it, um, because the more we practice it, like our brains don’t know the [00:26:00] difference between What really happened and what might happen in the future or what’s happening right now.

It’s, it’s the neurotransmitters or something like this. Science is going to tell us that, that by practicing it, by visualizing it, is making it, like, connect there for us. And then it allows us to show up better the next time. Um, and I mean it works, but I think for me to answer your question is kind of thinking about it in advance.

Like, where do I think I’m going to get stuck or caught up and what do I think is going to be the The biggest one for me, but also I kind of come back to the days I’ve meditated at the beginning of the day, I show up better and I know that I’ve got a whole track record of showing me like I’m much more patient, I’m more compassionate, I’m much more nurturing, like the way I want to be is better when I’ve taken those moments to meditate, but it’s because I’m filling my cup and giving myself what I need before anybody else has an opportunity to fill it.

Take or need from me or for me [00:27:00] to show up and serve them the way that they need. So, you know, it’s all fill your cup so you can fill others.

Adam Baruh: totally. Um. You know, how do you balance being a mom of four and you’re older kids sound adult level So maybe they’re not

Shaunna Lee: They are.

Adam Baruh: as much day to day, but how do you balance that being a mother of four and? podcaster and author and everything that you’re doing with what you Know about the time that you need to center yourself with meditation and journaling.

How do you balance the

Shaunna Lee: Well,

Adam Baruh: time commitments

Shaunna Lee: honest answer is it depends on the day. So, you know, some days are better than others. I, I have gotten better at recognizing when things aren’t feeling as smooth and I’m more frustrated or less patient. I mean, yes, listen, four kids is a lot. My older girls are 27 and 29. My 27 year old lives at home, but she is [00:28:00] quite busy as adults are.

Um, and my other one lives across the country with her husband. Um, but they still need me and still rely on me and want to have touch points and. Um, my daughter who lives here, we have regular dates with one another. So we will go and have mother daughter dates. Um, we’re about to go to New York together.

Super excited. Um, so the one on one time I know is really important to each of them, regardless of how old they are. But if I had to have one on one time with each of my children and show up for my work and my boyfriend, all at the same time in the same day, There would not be anything left of me. And so I just know that there’s some give and take, and some days people are going to get more from me than others.

But I know when I take care of myself first, I have more to give. And so that’s really, when I feel it’s off center, I come back to align with yourself, know where you’re going, remind yourself who you are, and then things tend to be a little smoother.

Adam Baruh: That’s so [00:29:00] important because, you know, as we get older and we have kids and careers and stuff like that, like, you know, we feel that our own needs, um, are, are less important. Like there’s just so much time in a day. And so we find ourselves, you know, doing this behavior over, over time, over months or years where, you know, we’re just giving everything to everything else.

Um. But I love that you’ve gotten to a place where, you know, you’re happy to talk about. And confident in talking about how you carve out that time for yourself because it is hugely important. And I think, you know, for anybody listening here, you know, make sure that you are thinking about what your own needs are.

And something that was really interesting for me when I started on my own healing journey after dealing with these anxiety attacks, I was listening to a podcast called Awakening OD with Jessa Reed, the host, and she was [00:30:00] talking about You know, ourselves kind of like making a comparison as if we were video game characters like avatars and, you know, she’s like, well, think about, you know, just imagine you’re like a video game character running around doing all this stuff and, and your battery, your health levels just getting down to zero, um, like thinking about.

Ways that, what are the things that fill your cup that like recharge your battery. And she challenged her, her listeners to sit down with their journals and write about five things that fill your cup. And so I’m listening to this. I was actually by myself at the beach, um, doing this and I’m like, all right, well, I’m going to do that.

Do you know how hard it was

Shaunna Lee: To come up with five?

Adam Baruh: thing, let alone five? Like once I started to get into it, then they came to me, but I, I think I sat there for like a half an hour. Like. I have no idea because I had been so out of practice with taking care of myself or even thinking that I was worthy [00:31:00] enough to take care of myself and that were my needs were just as important as my kids and or my career jobs needs.

Like, have you found yourself kind of in that space where, um, like when you kind of started to think about the mindfulness and the meditation and the journaling? Like, was that a struggle

Shaunna Lee: Well,

Adam Baruh: started out? Kind of like mine was,

Shaunna Lee: funny how you were saying earlier, like, you know, I, I am so good at knowing what I need, or I don’t even remember how you said it exactly, but I thought, oh my gosh, I feel a little bit like a fraud right now. Because if you had looked at me last week, I was losing my mind last week. And I think that just speaks to It is a practice, and so when I drop the habits and I do what is so easy for any of us to do, which is to put everybody else’s needs in front of us, um, I’m actively raising two kids at home.

It’s super easy for me to have, like, no priority in that conversation, um, and my boyfriend [00:32:00] came to me and said, what do you need? And I honestly, in that moment, didn’t know what I needed. I was like, I don’t know what I need. Um, and it was because I was out of practice and I was out of touch with who I am and so I just, I have a list now over years and years of practice where I go back to the things on my list and I’m like, I don’t know.

Do I need to journal? Let’s sit down to journal. It works. It doesn’t work. I don’t know. Then I move on to the next thing. And so it’s more that I just have my checklist at this point. Um, but usually what I actually need is just to connect with myself again. So, but, you know, answering, What, what do you want?

What do you, what do you do to have fun? When was the last time you played? I’m like, I don’t even know. So, yeah, I think I still have those moments of, Oh, gosh, what do I need? But I, I at least now have my checklist. I can

Adam Baruh: I like the idea of a [00:33:00] checklist because yeah, like one given day you may, you may not even like feel that you want to meditate. Like that’s not the answer for that given day. It may be that you just need to go for a walk or whatever. So that’s, that’s a great tip. I want to, I want to bring us into the podcasting a little bit.

Um, maybe you mentioned a little bit earlier about getting into podcasting, but Yeah. Go back a little bit for us, um, about that inception of when the idea to, to become a podcaster came to be and kind of how you started to like conceptualize perhaps what your message might be, what your premise and, you know, then going into planning out, you know, your first maybe 10 episodes or however you did it.

And then ultimately, you know, over time, how, how that’s evolved for you,

Shaunna Lee: Yeah, I would say, um, it started with an idea, and I literally heard podcast, a single word, while I was meditating, and I was like, am I supposed to be on a podcast? Am I supposed to start a podcast? What does this mean? So I just kind of sat with it, and it kept coming back to [00:34:00] me, and then, um, I was like, okay, I think I could see myself starting a podcast, and then I was like, well, what the heck am I going to talk about?

Who? What am I going to call it? I had no idea. And so I just, this is what I tell everyone. You hear the whisper. You feel the nudge. Just lean into it. Just pay attention. And some days, yeah, it felt like I was jumping off a cliff and I wasn’t sure where it was going to go. And every time I’ve done that in my life, where I take a big risk, where I do a thing before I feel ready to do the thing.

The gaps get filled in and one thing leads to another and I talk to one, you know, guest and then that leads me to another. Um, I don’t actually know how I settled on the start again concept, but what I knew I wanted to be a part of was helping people tell their stories and I wanted to be able to highlight other people who’ve done these big scary things.

[00:35:00] For the people who still haven’t given themselves permission to even want the thing, much less go after it. And so, because I know this concept of expanders is so powerful. So you see somebody doing something that you’ve only ever thought, Ah, that’d be kind of cool. And it expands your vision and your potential for your own life by seeing someone else has done it.

And so, for me it really started with, I wanted to highlight single moms and show what, show the world. Like, How amazing things can be after divorce. Um, And then, you know, one thing led to another and now I’ve got seasons and now I’ve got different themes and so it sort of goes where it’s supposed to go at that point.

Adam Baruh: timeout really quickly. I just,

Shaunna Lee: Yeah.

Adam Baruh: for something. I’m just going to tell the person I’ll be right there.

Shaunna Lee: Oh yeah, we are long.

Adam Baruh: spot here. We’re almost done anyway. [00:36:00] Okay. Cool. She actually, um, rescheduled before, uh, I, I just didn’t see her reschedule request. So we’re all good. All right. So, so jumping back into this. So, um, in terms of your podcasting, you, yeah, you took that leap of faith. You, um, sound, it sounded like something that was an idea and, and kind of for me too.

I, before I got into it, like if somebody were to ask me, um, Hey, you have, you’re interested in podcasting it. No way. I, like I mentioned in my intro, I’m just kind of more behind the scenes guy. Um, and I think that’s a common experience for a lot of people that, that get into this type of creative work. Um, because it can be scary and I definitely like that you touched on that you just kind of went for it and you just like the gaps were filled in, um, along the way, because that that is [00:37:00] something I would tell everybody, like, not just for podcasting, but anything that seems scary that.

And I’ve been in that space too, where I kind of felt like I had to have everything figured out before going down some new path, but I don’t know. I mean, for me, the, the advice that I would give to, you know, people that perhaps are just starting out or considering getting into podcasting, like just. Go for it.

And the answers will come. It doesn’t need to be perfect. It doesn’t need to be how I built this with, with Guy Raz. It doesn’t need to sound like that. It could sound like anything, but, uh, the real power is to just get in there because you never know, like as a podcast host, getting into it, which may be scary.

You may have a conversation on your podcast that is super powerful and leads to an impact in somebody else’s life. So. Definitely get into it. I want to ask, you know, now that you’ve been kind of doing this a while, I mentioned at the beginning too, you’ve got about 59 published episodes. Like, you know, how is [00:38:00] your, you know, with where you’re at now, like what are some of the tools that you use?

How has that perhaps changed over time? Editors, recording software, stuff like that.

Shaunna Lee: Oh my gosh, everything’s constantly changing. Um, so I started, where did I start? I think I started recording on Zoom, and then I went to Squadcast, and had some glitches there, wasn’t super impressed. It, uh, very similar to Zoom. Then I moved to Riverside. Frickin love Riverside. I think I’ve had, of all the times that I’ve, I’ve recorded a lot of episodes in Riverside, many more than anywhere else, and I think I’ve had like, Two glitches.

I mean, the technology is just so solid. Um, not perfect. Technology’s not perfect, but I, I have loved that tool. I, um, I actually took Jenna Kutcher’s The Podcast Lab, and this is where she breaks down how to start a podcast. And I’ll tell you, it was that that got me over the [00:39:00] hump. So I was a good student and I did all of the modules before because I wanted to have everything in line.

But what she said was she literally started her podcast with her iPhone recording in her car in her garage. And I thought, OK, I’m overthinking this. I don’t need the perfect microphone. I don’t need a studio. Like, listen, I record in my closet. It’s got great acoustics. Um, Like, I have just put one thing in front, you know, I just took the leap and I did buy myself a little microphone.

It made me feel good about what I was doing and then I’ve since upgraded. You just do one little thing at a time. Um, there was something else I wanted to say, but I, it has eluded me. But I, I think the technology changes and, um, I started on Anchor. I probably won’t stay there. Um, you know, you just go in. I think Anchor is a great, platform for learning.

They make it super easy and they let you just [00:40:00] take that leap and just get started. I think getting started is the hardest thing. The one thing I will say, um, I had a point in my podcast where I thought I was going to run out of guests. And then one week I had no one left to talk to and I thought, Oh my gosh, what am I going to do?

And I’m telling you the gaps are always filled in. I had the little nudge. I am a member of a Facebook group, Women Supporting Women Entrepreneurs. So I was like, well, maybe I’ll just put a post out there and see if anybody bites. I had over a hundred people respond. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I thought all of a sudden it was not, I was going to run out of people, but how the heck am I going to talk to all these people?

So that the problem totally shifted. And so then I got to focus on who are the right guests. Who do I want to talk to? Oh my gosh, I’ve got so many women business owners. I could categorize them by financial planners and like all these different categories, and so it just gave me more than I could have imagined or even thought [00:41:00] of.

And then I discovered Podmatch, which I believe that’s how you and I met. And I have been really pleased with Podmatch. Just the ability to be a little choosier and find the right matches for guests has been amazing. That now that’s no, no longer even a concern for me. Running out of people seems like the silliest thing to worry about.

Adam Baruh: Love it. And, uh, I love using Podmatch and, um, I was able to interview Alex, um, Sanfilippo on, I believe it was episode six, maybe on Beyond the Microphone.

Shaunna Lee: That’s

Adam Baruh: Um, so for anybody listening, go check that out. He’s, he’s a fascinating guy. So passionate about educating podcasters

Shaunna Lee: Yeah.

Adam Baruh: Stay in the game and avoid the pod fade.

Um, so that’s awesome. Well, as we come to a close here today, I always ask people the same kind of two questions as we close, um, around the theme of discoveries. And so the first question is just around podcasting. I mean, you’ve probably spoken, [00:42:00] you know, on this topic, you know, here in this conversation today, but you know, as we, as we come to wrap here today, how would you describe Any discoveries you’ve made just, just around podcasting, um, since you started maybe observations around the industry, or maybe you mentioned how the technology changes, you know, any, anything like that, just discoveries that you made just around podcasting.

Shaunna Lee: So I will say the biggest discovery is less about the technology or the tools behind podcasting, but more about myself. Every single time I go into, oh my gosh, I don’t know how I feel about this interview. I’m not really feeling it today. I come out. It is so filling my bucket that I’m like, okay, I’m doing the right thing here.

This is what I should be doing. But I think it’s been a big self discovery for me to realize this is why I heard podcasts in the [00:43:00] meditation, because this is what I’m supposed to be doing. It doesn’t matter about the rest of my business or what the next book is. Um, this is what gives me the energy to do all the other things.

Adam Baruh: Hmm. I love that. Um, well, that was kind of, was also my second question. It was going to be about self discoveries made through podcasting. So do you want to touch on that a little bit more? Are there any other self discoveries,

Shaunna Lee: I think, I think they’re pretty, they’re pretty close. Um, I will say I just did the other self discovery, which is I tend to talk over people. Um, and it’s something I’m working on. Uh, but I think that really it has built my confidence to. Trust my intuition by doing the thing that I have the nudge to do and paying attention to my desires and leaning into my curiosity And giving my person my give myself permission to want what I want Has built my confidence

Adam Baruh: I love that. Well, thank you so much for, for being my guest here today on Beyond the Microphone. Where can people [00:44:00] find and learn more about you and the work that you do?

Shaunna Lee: I am well, thank you for having me and I’m so glad your wife has the same name as me I can be found on all the socials at simply shaunalee and my website is shaunalee. com. I’ve got lots of freebies. That’s where you can find links to all my courses and my books and all about me.

Adam Baruh: Great. And we’ll have those links in our episode show notes. So check that out. Um, again, thank you so much for being here today.

Shaunna Lee: Fabulous. Thank you.

Adam Baruh: After nearly 20 years in corporate America and surviving three divorces, Shauna Lee, a mom of four founded a business that helps women fall in love and make more money using various modalities.

She creates a customized wellness plan and sets intentions and manifest success and empowerment. She offers one on one coaching. Writes books and hosts a podcast. She strived to help clients align with who they truly are. She also loves to [00:45:00] discuss entrepreneurship, becoming an author, parenting, co parenting, and midlife dating. Are you stuck trying to take your podcast to the next level? Do you need help with marketing or post-production? At EIQ Media Group, we offer podcast coaching, production, editing, and marketing support. Head on over to to learn more. If you’re enjoying beyond the microphone, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts.

Leave us a rating or review and check out our YouTube channel as well. You can find links to all of these in our episode show notes. Thank you all for listening and we’ll see you next time on Beyond the Microphone.

EIQ Media: Beyond the Microphone is produced and distributed by EIQ Media Group, LLC. Elevate your emotional IQ with podcasts and content focused on entrepreneurship, overcoming adversity, stories of emotional courage, women’s health, aging, and more. [00:46:00]