BTM S1E23 Terry McGuire
[00:00:00] Welcome to beyond the microphone, a podcast about podcasters and the stories of how their shows came together, grew and what they discovered along the way. I’m your host, Adam Barou. So as we get started today, I’d like to talk a little bit about targeted daily engagement. It is if you’re not doing it already, you don’t know what it is in terms of, um, you know, a marketing tool to grow your podcasting audience.

Adam Baruh: It is one of the top ways to do so to grow your audience. And. You know This is something that I think most podcasters do. I’ve done it and I, you know, I still do it because I think there is a benefit to it, but you know, there’s the expectation, like when you have a guest on your show, much like Terry Maguire’s here today, who I’ll introduce in a moment.

Um, you know, we, we hope that we can, you know, share the marketing assets and audiogram or whatever. With our [00:01:00] guests and that they’re going to, you know, share that on their social channels. And that’s going to drive a lot of like new download numbers. I, I, and it’s not just myself, but I’m a part of some podcasting communities.

And there’s a consensus about this. It really, you can’t really expect. A huge influx in your download numbers via your guests. It just, for whatever reason, and I think I know why, but, um, for whatever reason, it just doesn’t really generate that type of traffic, um, of new audience and new download numbers.

And I think partly the reason for that is, you know, when you’re posting a new episode or you’re posting something like, Hey, new episodes out, like check it out. It’s very promotional, and I think people don’t go and follow content when that content is shared promotionally. However, there is a way to reach out and grow your audience numbers, but it’s done [00:02:00] more by the way of engagement.

So where you’re actually Going to, we call them the watering holes. Like you got to understand who your audience is first and where they’re going on the internet to consume content. Um, relevant to the content that your podcast is about. So kind of, you know, it starts by understanding your audience. Like where are they going?

Are they going to Facebook groups? Are there, you know, are they going to tick talk? Are there, you know, forums or Reddit subreddit communities or whatever it may be, where, where they’re going to go to share about, you know, their own experience, they’re looking to connect with others around whatever content that.

Topic is find those watering holes and engage and have it be authentic engagement. And so this is what we call targeted daily engagement. And so what you’re doing is carve off, like, time block 15 to 30 minutes a day. That’s it. Don’t spend your whole day doing this. 15 to [00:03:00] 30 minutes if you could do more great, but at least 15 to 30 and you’re going to those watering holes and you’re going to your own watering holes like you should have a YouTube channel.

You should have your own communities and you’re engaging with people who are following your content who are commenting on your content. If somebody leaves a comment on a YouTube video that you posted to your channel. Comment to every single one of those right and in the watering holes, comment, don’t be promotional, don’t go on those, those communities and say, Hey, check out my new episode.

That’s not what you’re doing. You’re engaging. So you’re somebody, you know, makes a comment about some posts, some other person’s posts, engage, be part of the conversation, have it be authentic, have it be in your voice. If you can ultimately, you know, have some back and forth and. And ask them if you could DM them, like get permission to do so.

And then maybe share an episode that might be relevant to them. That is a better method for growing your audience in an organic way and an [00:04:00] authentic way versus anything that you’re doing that may be promotional. Because I do find that you, you’re just not going to get. You know, large influxes to your, your download numbers and your subscribers based on anything you’re doing promotionally, you still have to do it.

You want to have that exposure, you know, it’s good for SEO and other things like that, but a targeted daily engagement, if you’re not doing it yet. Get it to be part of your practice. 15 to 30 minutes a day is really all you need to do. So with that, let’s go ahead and introduce our guest here today. Her name is Terry Maguire.

She’s the cohost with her sister of the podcast, giving voice to depression, where Terry and her cohost, um, whom have both suffered from depression, engage in discussions around depression in an effort to de stigmatize it and promote understanding. So Terry, welcome to Beyond the Microphone. Happy you’re here today.

Terry McGuire: Thank you very much. I’m happy to be here.

Adam Baruh: You got it. I was checking out on listen [00:05:00] notes, um, you know, some information about your podcast just to kind of get some background on kind of where you’re at. And, um, first of all, kudos to you seem to have a good following, like top 1%. I think your listen score was something like 41 or 46. Um, and you’ve been at this a while.

I think I saw something like 260 episodes or something like that. So, you know, that tells me yeah. This is, this is part of your, like a very significant amount of work you’re putting out there. It’s a very, um, dedicated effort by you to, and it’s super important work is destigmatizing mental health and depression.

So can you tell us a little bit about, you know, your background and how, you know, obviously, you know, I, I saw in, in your marketing and your. Information about your podcast. This is something that, that you’ve kind of suffered through. So tell us a little bit about that and just, you know, how you kind of found to have a [00:06:00] voice to try to make a difference and try to help destigmatize these conversations around mental health and depression.

Terry McGuire: It’s interesting you use the word voice and of course I’ve used it in the name of the podcast giving voice to depression I made a living with my voice for decades. I used to be a journalist broadcast journalist TV anchor and Reporter and then started doing voiceovers. So voice is really important to me.

That’s thing you’re seeing over my shoulder is a sound wave of me saying she found her voice and used it. Um, I think that what happened for me, and I do have to do a quick correction. My little sister, uh, after five years stepped down and I have a new co host who is Dr. Anita Sands, a therapist, just want to say that.

Um, I live with depression. I had my worst ever right before starting the podcast. And I think once I came out of it, I. I was really surprised that I hadn’t just gone. Oh, this is depression. I need to see a doctor. I need to see a [00:07:00] therapist. I need to do what I need to do to get out of this hole. I have strep throat.

I need to get a prescription. I broke my ankle, whatever, you know, it’s a physical thing and I need to take care of it. I didn’t. I just completely Swallowed all of the lies that that depression tells you that it feeds you and I just thought life as I knew it was over me as I knew me was gone as well.

And I I just like succumb to set the right word to it. And for nearly two years, it greatly affected my life. I spent a lot of time in bed and as a reporter and as a reasonably Intelligent human being I don’t win any awards or anything, but I can Google and I didn’t I didn’t go on WebMD and Google my symptoms I’m I was so stunned by that that when I came out of it.

I was like, oh, this is a different enemy You know, this is a different illness this convinces you you don’t have one which sort of [00:08:00] disables you from doing things to get better. So I thought, well, if I’m that way, someone else is, you know, I don’t think I’m every person or anything, but someone else has had this experience.

And so I started researching it and I thought, yeah, we need to tell these stories. We need to hear these stories. And. I need to find a way to reach people who aren’t reaching out, you know, people who are going to a therapist, people are going to their doctor, are on a different level than those of us who are in bed.

So, the idea of a podcast came to mind and I thought, well, I’ve been interviewing people for 40 years, I know how to do that. And I know how to edit audio and I have, you know, microphones and all of that. I thought, I think I could do this. So, 2017 is when we started. I think we have actually 375 episodes. I just didn’t start, I didn’t start numbering them in the beginning.

This is how I didn’t expect it to keep going, but it has been every week since February of 2017, and we’re up to 1. 1 million plays, which is significant given the topic. [00:09:00] You know, this isn’t When I started it, I’m in Wisconsin, everybody said like, sure you don’t want to do a Packers podcast? I was like, oh, I am sure, um, but someone would listen.

And I wasn’t sure anybody would listen. And I was told they wouldn’t. Who wants to listen to a depression podcast? Wouldn’t that be depressing? Nobody’s going to want to talk because it’s so stigmatized and so embarrassing. I don’t happen to find it that. And nobody’s going to want to listen because they’ll just feel worse.

But we make sure that is also not the experience.

Adam Baruh: Yeah. And,

Terry McGuire: your question?

Adam Baruh: yes. And while, you know, like I haven’t dealt with depression, but I’ve dealt with anxiety. And, you know, even with that, like there, there’s a lot of kind of like feeling of shame involved with that in the sense that like, you know, when I, and I’ve spoken about this before, but like, I, I’d never really, I think I’ve always had a level of anxiety, but I’d never had really an anxiety attack until like the end of 2019, even just before the pandemic hit.

And partly that was the fact that I was way [00:10:00] overworking myself. I had, I have four kids and. My youngest was born. I really wasn’t getting much sleep and running, you know, a company and then the pandemic hit. Right. And so, you know, I started suffering these debilitating anxiety attacks and, and to the point where, you know, probably with depression, like you don’t see an end.

And there’s a sense of shame that happens where something’s wrong with me.

Terry McGuire: Mm

Adam Baruh: something, something’s wrong with me. How am I going to fix that? And, you know, like it got to a point after about a year where I kind of, I did realize like, I actually need to do something about this. I can’t just keep going day to day, assuming that it’s just going to go away much like it arrived out of nowhere.

Right. And so, you know, talk to us a little bit about, you know, maybe your experience with shame, because I, I feel like that’s probably a part of. You know, that trick that your mind plays where, you know, you don’t [00:11:00] really recognize that something’s really happening. You just think something’s wrong with you.

Like something’s broken in you. Right.

Terry McGuire: Broken. That’s the word. I personally don’t, I’m unaware if I experienced shame. I think I just didn’t recognize it as an illness or a condition that can be treated. I have interviewed hundreds of people who have said that they do, and I will use the gender thing here. In particular, men. They’re supposed to be strong.

They’re supposed to, you know, be able to handle anything that comes their way. I, uh, a whole lot of things to say about that, but I think that it’s other people who put it on you. I remember one of my very best friends said, You just don’t handle life as well as the rest of us. And I was like, Wow! You know, and didn’t even know he was being clueless or mean, but it was just not a lack of understanding and I’ll go so far as to say ignorance about the situation and the illness.

I [00:12:00] think, I think it’s just so easy to take it on as a personal flaw. You know, as, as opposed to something like, you know, the, from the outside that has come and like taken you over and you need to get it, get it out again or somehow learn to manage it like any other chronic illness. There’s definitely that and it, I think that’s one of the things, I just think it’s diabolical and I do personalize it because it makes it easier for me to deal with.

and externalized. Now, you know, I’m like, oh no, do not start with that. You know, do not start telling me that I’m worthless and that there’s no point and that this will last forever and all the things it tells you. They say the three Ps, it’s, oh, I won’t be able to come up with it, but pervasive, permanent, and personal.

Look at me. So it’s, I am flawed. I will always, you know, be alone, be sad, be depressed, be a loser, all those things. And it impacts everything. It’s not just that I did a really bad job on that report, or that class, or that relationship. It’s everything. And that’s the kind of thinking that just [00:13:00] spirals because you can’t, as you say, get out of it.

If you’re believing those lies, where would you turn? You know, why would you bother to go somewhere and try to get help?

Adam Baruh: Right. And I’m so glad you touched on, you know, the, the comparison to our physical health, because I think this is something, this is where really kind of the stigma around. Mental health, I think, and talking about it has, has really contributed to what you described where you get strep throat, you break a bone.

I mean, you know, you’re going to go seek treatment for those conditions. But because there’s been a stigma around talking about mental health issues, um, We just sweep it under the rug and we just kind of like live with it and hope that it goes away. I do think that we are now coming and I had a really fascinating conversation with somebody yesterday.

Um, uh, who’s going to, he’s one of the interviews that I made. So his, his episode is going to be coming up, but we. He we [00:14:00] talked about a lot of these big trends and kind of big like societal shifts and he was, you know, brought up like AI and crypto and blockchain and all this stuff. And then we got into this discussion around and I kind of put it out there.

I said, I kind of feel and this was pandemic inspired that we’re, In an age like a societal shift in the thinking around mental health and, um, again, like I, I look back and I kind of am grateful to the pandemic in that regard, like, obviously, know, all the sickness and death and stuff like that. I wouldn’t wish that again on anybody, but, uh, or ever on anybody.

But, but there’s some good that came out of the pandemic, which is, I do feel that people are talking about it more, there’s more and more conversations and one of the, um, stories that I shared with the guest yesterday was, and I’ll try to do this briefly, but, um, just this past weekend, um, my wife and I [00:15:00] brought our two younger kids to this local farm up the road here and it’s an organic farm and, um, it’s an education center about, you know, farming practices and Ecology.

It’s called the Ecology Center. So there’s a lot of ecology education and they have a mini little school program that they’re, they’re getting underway. And I was, I just overheard one of the educators say to somebody and it went right to my heart. He said, you know, you look, you come here because it’s a farm.

You look at this place and it’s a farm. Like we grow food, you buy the food, you eat the food. And, and so that like is what we appear to be. But what we really are. Yeah. Is like we’re, we’re not really about growing food. We’re about growing like mental health and emotional intelligence and strength in the children that come here.

And I, I thought that was so fascinating to hear that. And like part of [00:16:00] their education program is they teach mindfulness and stuff like that. And, and so that, that’s why I kind of, you know, bringing it back like. I’m talking about like a being in an age now where I think the destigmatization destigmatization is happening that the normalizing the conversations are happening.

Obviously, I hope that it continues and it’s not just some trend after the pandemic. But, uh, you know, what, what’s your take on that? Like, how do you feel about where we’re at here in mid 2023 with just the state of, you know, looking at mental health in general

Terry McGuire: I’ve seen a huge change. Absolutely. I’ve seen, I’ve also recognized that. And I think that the pandemic let us all know just how fine that line is between being mentally well and mentally unwell. You know, it’s like there were people who had never before experienced anxiety and all of a sudden they’re thinking, am I going to die if I leave my house?

You know, am I going to ever Go back to work. Am I gonna, you know, as you say, [00:17:00] there were far greater concerns during that period. But I think a lot of people saw in a lot of companies that had never before, you know, uttered the phrase or acknowledged the impact of life on various people in various ways now do.

I also do not think it’s going to go back. I think that Maybe some companies once they’re no longer required or expected to might, but I think the generation behind us is making damn sure it doesn’t go back and people are speaking so much more openly than they used to used to be difficult to find a guest.

And now people come to me. Um, I had an experience. To yours being out in the world and it was just a shopping cart at a Costco, right? And I shoved the cart in and I walked away, you know I got it past that little line so it didn’t roll back out but I was done Walked back to my car and the man who walked to the car beside me said it I You’re so lucky you could do that And I said, you know, excuse me And he said you could just shove the cart in and walk away and I said what did I do something wrong?

And he said no, but my OCD wouldn’t let [00:18:00] me do that My OCD made me put it in the cart in front of it and he said you’re so lucky You And I turned and said, um, I don’t know how lucky I am. Cause I got depression. But, but I’m glad you fixed the cart, and I’m glad we’re talking about mental health. And he chuckled and got in his car, and I thought, that was like two total strangers acknowledging that they have something they have to deal with, that they have to manage.

And that, I didn’t used to have those conversations in the Costco parking lot. So, I do think there’s a change. I think it’s so healthy because, oh, you know, if somebody says, oh, I’m having, oh, just think about when you start a job, you know, you used to be able to say, I mean, you’ve always been able to say, Do you know a good dentist?

You know, Hey, I just moved here. Is there an eye doctor? You know, but to sit down and say, Hey, I’m new in the area. Do you know a good therapist? You know, that just be like, Oh my God, what? You need therapy? You know, that was a different level. It had different rules. And now I almost think you could, you [00:19:00] know, I’m sure there are some people who would still react and go, why are you crazy?

You know, am I working with somebody, you know, unstable, but they’re just. I was going to use a derogatory term. Um, they’re just uninformed and, and one day again, you know, the second it affects you, the second you have your first panic attack or anxiety attack and think you’re having a heart attack, the first day that you have a suicidal thought out of nowhere and you think that life isn’t worth living, you know, boom, then you care, then you care a lot.

And the more people who are talking about then and somebody can say to you, Oh, did it feel like a heart attack? Oh, are you thinking this this this this and this because you need to know that those are symptoms Those are not your these are not truths that were previously previously unacknowledged, like I am worthless I am a burden, you know, you didn’t just figure that out That’s something coming into you that is in your own voice So it’s really really really easy to believe because our whole life we thought that the things we think are true [00:20:00] but it’s a it’s a very different illness and I have been Oh, honored to, to have so many people share their stories with me and I’ve learned so much because when you have an experience you think that’s the experience and I have my flavor, a variety of depression, but it’s really different than a lot of people I’ve talked to.

I don’t get angry. You know, I’m the isolated type.

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Adam Baruh: Yeah. So Chris Marshall, I remembered his name. He was the guest that I was having this conversation with yesterday. And another thing I thought was striking is he kind of described, um, this, you know, what he’s kind of voicing as the age of awareness in upcoming age of awareness. [00:22:00] And that’s, that’s this mega shift that’s happening around mental health and, you know, just in.

You know, enlightenment. Um, you know, I’ve heard the term wokeness, and there’s a weird, there’s become a weird political thing around that. But I think I like this, you know, describing or just having this sense of of an age of awareness. And I think, you know, you spoke about, you know, this younger generations, which, you know, I, I’ve got two kids that are Gen Z years, you know, they’re, they’re in their early 20s.

And You know, I’ve worked with a number of millennials. I’m a Gen X er and I, I couldn’t be more optimistic and excited about these generations and what they’re going to bring to the table. I mean, there’s so much like unfortunate, like old school ways of thinking that are still around because, you know, there’s a lot of people that still believe that stuff that are still around, but, um, getting, you know, I wanted to bring back to when you talked about when you started your podcast, how you thought.

You know, and you had people telling you, like, [00:23:00] who’s going to listen to it. He’s going to tell, tell me your take on having done this now, as long as you have producing 375 ish episodes, you know, you obviously seen the healing power that people being vulnerable and sharing their experiences, just being a part of that conversation, even as a listener, the healing power behind that and what you’ve seen in the conversations you’ve had on your podcast.


Terry McGuire: last night and pulled some of them out. Some of it is, oh, thank you, I didn’t know what I had. You know, I listened to that, and, um, I found out it had a name, and I’m getting some help, or I’m on the other side of it now, because there is another side, though it will tell you that there never will be.

We’ve also gotten a lot of thank you for saving my life and I will never say we save lives because [00:24:00] you don’t, you know, you, you, you give people information and perhaps hope that they use to save their own lives, but a lot. And, and I couldn’t be more surprised because when we started, we had the same, you know, phrase that, that kind of everyone uses, you know, if we can help one person and I meant that and, and so did my little sister who started it with me.

It has been shocking and and we’ve had people literally reach out. There was an artist who painted like butterflies and flowers and very, very light, bright things. And then he started a series of depression. I can’t remember the Latin term Invictus or something, but um, six paintings that were just. You know, it was a light switch to turn things off.

It was black balloons. It was six of those kinds of paintings that all were brilliant depictions of depression, but they were coming from inside of him, which was sad. And his plan [00:25:00] was to finish the sixth and end his life. And he turned on the podcast, he just Googled depression podcast. And fortunately we, or, you know, could have been someone else who was also really careful and caring, but it was us and he listened and he realized, Oh, maybe this won’t last because he’d heard stories of other people.

And it’s those stories. It’s the first person. lived experience, shared stories that are what breaks the stigma. You know, I can say to you one in four or one in five, you know, to me, especially when you start talking about the number of people, the suicide statistics and how often and I can’t even say him because I’ll start to cry.

But I also hear those numbers when they get so big. I feel like I’m talking about the national debt and it has no impact. There’s a certain point at which just doesn’t. doesn’t land. But if you tell me, you know, that you couldn’t get out of bed and your children wondered what was wrong, and I realize you don’t have depression, um, [00:26:00] if someone tells me they couldn’t get out of bed and their children were really frightened because daddy wasn’t available or he was mean and they thought it was them.

My own father had an undiagnosed mental illness and it impacted us and, and it carried out into, you know, now. And I could have impacted my own children by not caring for myself the way I have. Um, I totally lost my train of thought because I start thinking about all the people who shared their stories, but the point is that when they do, that hearing them is really healing because you just think, oh, there’s a name for it.

Oh, it’s not just me. Oh, there are ways out. You hear their We call them tools in their mental health toolkit, but the ways they manage and it may be just what you’re doing and you go, Oh, good, you know, I’ve got this right. Or maybe different. And you go, Oh, good, there’s more stuff to try. Um, but there’s also real power in telling your story and in having it honored and in having, you know, when you talked about promotions, we take, I take four or five quotes [00:27:00] from the guest each week.

And that’s what I use for my posts. So I am literally honoring their words and their story. In, in on many levels so that they realize that what they had to say was important and impactful and then people who aren’t even listening are able to see those little snippets from it. So I just think it is a.

And it’s not just depression. I think that any time we share, you use the word authentic when you were several times when you were starting the, this episode, I think when we’re authentic, when we say it is hard, it is so hard, you know, no matter what it is, really, it could be being broke, you know, it could be being old, you know, you see all the generations you are, I’m a boomer, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s difficult aging.

And I think that anytime we’re able to say that, and somebody else can just go, yeah, me too. Yeah. You know, that has healing potential.

Adam Baruh: You know, something that I’ve noticed, um, and I think this was also something that was, you know, accentuated by the [00:28:00] pandemic, but, you know, here in this day and age where. Just, you know, with social media and smartphones, I mean, there’s kind of a feeling of it’s more difficult to make connections like human connections.

So many of us work remote now. Um, that makes it even harder. Tell me your take on. Just podcasting in general and how it plays a part in providing just as a listener, perhaps, you know, listening to your favorite podcasts, how you think it plays a part in establishing human connections where in this day and age where I think there’s an erosion of connection.

Terry McGuire: I don’t know. I, I, because I’m thinking of the podcasts I listen to, which are not mental health podcasts. So I can’t really do it with that. So I’ll just talk about a podcast like mine, and I, and I mean, and the zillion others that would fit into a category of, of giving connection. Boy, it’s a tough question.

I think that maybe, and again, this [00:29:00] still isn’t, you know, the kind of connection That we all need human connection, but the connection between your story and there’s just that understanding. You are not a flawed human being that you are not alone. You know, you always see hashtag. You’re not alone. And that used to really rile me because when I was in my depression.

Oh, I was alone. I was very alone. I lived alone. I Took care of myself alone. I didn’t take care of myself alone. I think we need to make it clear that when we say that we mean you’re not alone in that experience. You’re not the only one who has this. You’re not the only one having those thoughts. You’re not the only one having those feelings.

You’re not the only one having trouble taking a shower. And just to hear that, it’s like, Oh, it’s a thing. So maybe that’s the connection you were speaking of. You know, it’s, it’s just like if you find out. That’s like a lot of people aren’t showering when they have really bad depression and they’re having trouble making themselves healthy meals and their houses look like, you know, chaos.

Okay, okay, [00:30:00] you know that doesn’t make it better. It doesn’t make me feel better about myself or my situation, but There’s something in knowing that it isn’t just me and that I’m not like doing it. I’m not doing depression badly too when I’m doing life badly. So I guess that’s where I would go with the connection, but it’s still, Oh, it’d be so nice to have actual real human understanding in person connection, but depression in particular.

isolates a lot of us. You know, you don’t have it in you to get up and get out of bed and go somewhere or to think often correctly that the person with whom you’d be meeting up is going to say, talk to me. What you thinking? What’s going on? And you know, do you need me to remind you of your worth? Do you need me to remind you who you are or to hold hope for you?

Um, while you’ve lost it. You have to be pretty comfortable with those kind of discussions to be able to say that sort of thing. I don’t think most people try and I’m not judging them because I don’t [00:31:00] know what to say to people who have illnesses I don’t have

Adam Baruh: Yeah.

Terry McGuire: other than I’m sorry. Yeah.

Adam Baruh: Yeah. No, that’s a good one. All right. Well, as we, as we kind of wrap up here today, I want to ask, um, a couple of questions on kind of the theme of discoveries. And the first is, you know, just throughout your podcasting experience, I mean, even some of you talked about some of the, uh, perceptions, um, people had around a podcast around depression.

What discoveries have you made about podcasting just in your experience, hosting a podcast?

Terry McGuire: It is a lot more work than you would guess and that you can have really important and impactful content, but if nobody knows about it, you know, that’s, that’s not going to re it’s not going to reach them and have the impact that it could. And that even if it’s not zillions of people, if you’re reaching some of the right ones, [00:32:00] there’s still enormous value in the effort.

And it’s an effort, you know, doing a podcast a week for. Six and a half years is a, it’s an effort and funding, you know, it’s mental health. So, you know, that’s never really been at the top of the pile. So it’s, it’s always a struggle.

Adam Baruh: Yeah. So I also wanted to ask again on the theme of discoveries. So in, in your podcasting experience, what discoveries have you made about yourself that were surprising or you didn’t know about before?

Terry McGuire: I think the, you ask good questions. Um, I think it’s interesting to realize that you have an ability to create immediate trust. And I don’t know if it’s because people have listened to previous episodes and know I’m careful and that I edit all my episodes. Really edit them. Um, because a lot of people, when they finally get the [00:33:00] chance to share, overshare.

And they say things that I have a feeling they wouldn’t want out in the world. Or that wouldn’t, wouldn’t serve them well to have out there. And, and I care about, you know, I, I’m not doing this to make anybody’s life worse or depression worse. So, I’m, I’m always surprised when someone. You know, they start a bit hesitantly, perhaps.

Or, or, root? Route? What’s the word for when they’ve already said it a hundred times and you can tell the way they’re saying it is the way they’ve said it if you listen to ten other podcasts they run, if they’ve ever been on one. My favorites are the ones who’ve never been on one, who say, I’ve never talked about this publicly, and I just think, wow!

Wow! I mean, you’re trusting me to not only hear your story, but to put it out into What’s often a really unkind world, and to edit it, you know, there’s a whole other level of trust that I’m picking the parts I’m going to use. So, I think, I think that, I think the enormity of the [00:34:00] responsibility and the, uh, blessing, the honor of being trusted.

Adam Baruh: Yeah. So, can you, can you offer up any advice for, you know, for people that found their way to this episode today, um, that may be experiencing depression or looking to get help? Uh, can you, can you close this out with just some, maybe some resources or some advice, um, that you can leave our listeners with?

Terry McGuire: Well, in the U. S., the number changed to 988, so you can call, text that, that number, and talk to a trained listener. There is enormous power in having your story heard by someone who’s not judging it. And the people at Crisis Lines, Help Lines, Warm Lines, I used to work at one, have heard it before, have heard some version of your story before, so they won’t be shocked.

It won’t be like, wait, what? You know, what do you have to be sad about? You have such a nice fill in the blank. I think that’s an important thing. I also think if you can’t afford Or [00:35:00] don’t have access to, you know, therapy and a good doctor. That’s where I started my medical doctor. That peer support is a, is a thing.

And it’s something you can search for. And there are online groups and there are free online groups. There are communities. Our Facebook community, Giving Voice to Depression, has like 12, 000 people in it. And if somebody writes that they’re having a difficult time, or just, hey, what do you, what do you do when you think or feel this, other people will come in.

Because. We’re subject matter experts by our lived experience, and the more we get to share it, suddenly a part of us that’s certainly not our favorite part becomes something of worth because it’s giving us insights with which we can help someone else.

Adam Baruh: Yeah, thank you. So we’re going to have links, um, to some, some good resources in the episode show notes. Um, For anybody looking to, you know, kind of make the next step. And, you know, really, I’m truly grateful for the work that you’re doing, Terry. [00:36:00] Normalizing depression, conversations, mental health, I think it’s so fundamentally important.

You are definitely a game changer when it comes to being a part of this age of awareness. Like, you know, kind of shifting the dialogue to a new perception and a new reality, which I think is going to be so fundamentally needed. And that gives me a lot of optimism and hope for my children and for the future that, you know, as Life just becomes more difficult just through everything my kids are going to deal with that they’re hopefully going to have the resources because, you know, I do feel like, you know, from the ground up, like education systems and there’s going to be a lot of, uh, just norm, normality about talking about what we’re feeling.

And so I’m grateful also for you carving out some time to be with us today. So thank you, Harry.

Terry McGuire: Thank you for inviting me and making the time to talk about our work.

Adam Baruh: You got it. Terry Maguire is a former broadcast journalist and voiceover talent who’s earned a living with her [00:37:00] voice and doing this for more than four decades. After experiencing her longest and darkest depression, she decided to use her experience to give voice to depression.

For six and a half years, Terry has produced and co hosted the weekly Giving Voice to Depression podcast. Her mission and message are clear. Terry wants listeners to know they are not alone. That recovery is possible and that the dark thoughts in their minds are symptoms and not truths. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you’re listening, as well as to our YouTube channel.

You can find links to all these in our episode show notes. And be sure to check out all of the amazing podcasts we produce through EIQ Media Group. The Change, a podcast focused on servant leadership and mental health. How I Made It Through. Where you’ll hear inspiring stories of triumph over struggle, overcoming adversity and more, and what I wish I knew a podcast that challenges the way our society has looked at women’s health and the [00:38:00] journey through menopause.

Thank you all for listening. And we’ll see you next time on beyond the microphone.

EIQ Media: Beyond the Microphone is produced and distributed by EIQ Media Group, LLC. Elevate your emotional IQ with podcasts and content focused on entrepreneurship, overcoming adversity, stories of emotional courage, women’s health, aging, and more.