BTM S1E34 Jodi Krangle


Adam Baruh: Welcome to Beyond the Microphone, a podcast about podcasters and the stories of how their shows came together, grew, and what they discovered along the way. I’m your host, Adam Baroum. So before we get into our interview today, I wanted to just talk a little bit about Um, I’ve spoken about it before on beyond the microphone, but you know, it’s, it’s really the, the tools around podcasting that are supported by AI are becoming more and more pervasive, I guess, out there in the marketplace.

Um, and you know, disclaimer, um, I, I am the CEO of pod task and, uh, pod task does, it is integrated with chat GPT. Or the GPT 4. 0, um, framework, uh, by open AI. And so it does have features for creating show notes, um, [00:01:00] recommended hooks or pull quotes, we call them. Um, as well as, uh, social media posts and stuff like that as, and generating your transcript.

So it’s the tool that I rely on, but what I wanted to talk about is, is actually more kind of time management and how AI. fits into what I’m doing to really maintain the amount of time and, and keep efficient with the time that I’m spending. In my podcast production, because it’s a big thing. I mean, most of us have other jobs.

We have families that we’re supporting and you know, so podcasting is kind of a side thing, uh, you know, for, for people that are doing it full time. I mean, that’s not the majority. So most of us are kind of managing this podcast work in addition to all this other stuff. And so it’s really important to think about time management.

When, you know, we’re doing this work so that we stay in the game so that we don’t get burned out so that we don’t become one of the pod fade statistics of, you know, people that don’t make it to the two year mark, because I think [00:02:00] really all of us can get there if we really set out intentionally. Um, with thinking about how we’re going about everything, like literally everything that we’re doing to produce an episode, you know, it starts with finding guests and, and, you know, booking them, interviewing, you know, the research, all of that, it’s very time consuming.

And so things that you could be doing to make your time management more efficient. I would say a hundred percent, you know, look into those tools. And so I’ve spoken many times before I used to have a podcast called the change and it was about mental health and kind of the, you know, the workplace environment, very much inspired by the great resignation, um, and the pandemic.

Um, and I loved that podcast. I had some great interviews, but it was a very, very time consuming podcast. I would interview a lot of authors, I would read their books, you know, all the research to prepare for the episodes, but really the editing [00:03:00] process. And then more specifically. Because I’m also a podcast producer.

I work on four different podcasts and, you know, going and asking all the hosts when I’m, you know, working on their episodes, all right, we’re ready to publish, I need you to provide me a title. I need you to review the episode, look for places where you want some dialogue edits made, and then I need the show notes.

Um, if you could write that up for me. So it was time consuming for everybody, not just myself. And. When I learned about the different tools around show note generation and, um, that are AI backed or AI fueled, um, that was a game changer for me. Like enough to the extent where within pod task, I knew I needed to have that integration where.

You know, podcasts itself could be one of those platforms that could generate just in the normal, you know, production flow of producing an episode, generating show notes is one of those things. So what if you can [00:04:00] click a button and have it done for you? Well, guess what? I haven’t written a single, um, show notes for any of the episodes on beyond the microphone, nor any of the other podcasts that we produced through EIQ media group.

Um, you know, the GPT platform does a fantastic job of, you know, I mean, when I developed PodTask, I, I configured all the prompts and how I, you know, how I provided the data to the AI model. So it would return, you know, a pretty thorough and, you know, really good content of around show notes and the social media posts.

So in fact, I don’t even really need to edit the show notes. One PodTask generates those for me. I, I review that. You know, sometimes maybe I’ll make a tweak here and there, but copy and paste right into Buzzsprout when I’m publishing the episode, as well as here’s the other thing, um, on some of the other episodes, our podcasts that we produce, we actually have like a really compelling guest [00:05:00] quote from the interview that we take like a 22nd quote that we put in the beginning as kind of a hook.

For the listener to draw them into the episode. And so we used to actually have to listen to the whole episode to, to find those little quote, golden nuggets, right? I don’t need to do that anymore. I simply load the transcript into pod task. I click a button. It recommends four or five different quotes to use.

Um, and it does a really good job actually. So I don’t, I mean, think about the hours saved in my podcast production timeframe. Um, that is now relieved back to me to focus on the important things like marketing. Getting out there, getting my podcast exposed out to the world. That’s really the best strategic use of my time.

It’s not thinking about creating show notes because you know, although I do think I’m a decent writer, I mean, it still takes time to do that stuff. So check out the different tools that are out there. I love pod task, but again, I, I wrote it. [00:06:00] So, um, a little, uh, Perhaps bias there, but let’s get into our interview today.

Our guest is Jody Krangel. She’s the host of the audio branding podcast, where Jody talks about how keeping a consistent sound and how you present your company really is the hidden gem of marketing. She explores that on her show, both with her own observations and by interviewing knowledgeable professionals in the field of advertising.

Marketing, music, and science. The audio branding podcast has an exceptional listen score of 39 and is ranked as a top 2 percent podcast. So Jody, welcome to beyond the microphone.

Jodi Krangle: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Adam Baruh: You got it. Thank you for your patience. As I expounded on AI and all that

Jodi Krangle: I want to know more about pod task, actually.

Adam Baruh: Oh, 100%. Well, all of the guests that come on, um, beyond the microphone do receive a promotion code for three free months on PodTask.

And, uh, there’s no strings attached, no [00:07:00] obligations. You can downgrade or cancel after the three months, but my suspicion is that you won’t want to.

Jodi Krangle: I’m actually using some AI tools right now. I’m using Podium and I’m using Opus Clips. And I do that clip thing at the beginning that you were talking about with my own podcast. And Opus Clips is how we get those right now. But I’m always looking to be more efficient. So

Adam Baruh: Yeah, well, let’s talk about that a little bit. Cause, um, first of all, how long have you been podcasting for?

Jodi Krangle: since November of 2019, so

Adam Baruh: Oh, so,

Jodi Krangle: four years

Adam Baruh: so way before even any of these tools were

Jodi Krangle: Oh yeah, totally. Yeah.

Adam Baruh: So tell us a little bit about, I mean, I want to get into, you know, your background and kind of what got you into podcasting, but let’s, since we’re on this topic, um, tell me a little bit about the evolution that you experienced now that you’re using these AI tools previously.

I’m assuming you wrote all that stuff from scratch, so, you know, tell us a little bit about that history and, and just, you know, your own observations now that you’re using these AI tools.

Jodi Krangle: Well, in the [00:08:00] beginning, I did have help. I’ve always had help with my, uh, audio video editor, Umberto Franco, who is a fellow voice talent like I am. And, uh, he’s in Portugal and he is super talented. He’s been with me from day one, even before I actually started this podcast. So I had one before that. Um, For like about 30 episodes and he was helping me edit that one as well.

So I know a little bit about editing myself because I do that on a daily basis as a voice talent, obviously. But when it comes to a longer podcast episode, I didn’t want to do that myself. I didn’t have time and I wanted to leave that in someone else’s hands. So he’s been doing that for me for a while.

So ever since the beginning that has been outsourced. And I’m happy to do that. My show notes have also always been outsourced and I like using a human editor for that, a human writer, because even though I now have the, the AI [00:09:00] generating what it thinks would be good show notes, I still want the show notes to be in my voice.

And to have my sensibilities and to be accurate, which unfortunately isn’t always the case. It depends on where it’s getting its information. So I want someone to look over that. And the really interesting development that I’ve seen lately is people who are writers, who are ghostwriters. And a lot of times, um, they are now developing skills in order to be able to work with AI and not be replaced.

You know, so it’s, it’s been an interesting development. So I think that the writers now are becoming well versed in AI so that they can use it on behalf of clients, but still have that human element, that human touch to keep the podcast and the show notes on task.

Adam Baruh: Yeah, it’s wild how like all the different industries and, you know, creative ways that AI can be utilized. I mean, [00:10:00] you know, In certain uses. I mean, it can, like you said, like replace perhaps a human, but in other areas, I find it to be more of like a creative, like inspirer. Um, so I am a pretty crappy musician, but not terribly crappy.

I, I really enjoy, um, playing the guitar and stuff like that, but I’ve never been a great songwriter. And so I’ve actually turned to like chat GPT and I’m like, Hey, I’ve got, um, a chord progression, you know, in the key of E minor, for example, kind of thinking about a song, you know, inspired by these concepts or, or thoughts, you know, write, write the song for me.

And it literally will do the whole thing. It’ll, it’ll. Even in the key of E minor, it’s putting the different chord progressions around that key. It’s putting a good bridge in there. And if I don’t like maybe the first draft, I’m like, all right, I, I like this, but let’s have, you know, maybe the, the [00:11:00] topic of the song, maybe go a different direction.

And then it’ll, it’ll kind of make a modification. And, and so in those areas, I like that. It’s kind of like, Just to amuse, if you will, like just helps me get my creative juices flowing. So

Jodi Krangle: help with getting that white page syndrome, getting past that. I, I get it. Um, I’m a singer myself, and I had a website online from 1995 until about 2016 called the Muses Muse, which was a songwriting website. And I can tell you that I saw the, uh, Evolution of songwriting from the very start of that website to Napster and beyond.

And, uh, I, I really still feel that if, even if it can instigate the ideas that it shouldn’t be the thing that writes it because. You know, actually, if you want to make a name for yourself as a songwriter, or if you want to be famous as a performer, your work cannot be submitted to the Grammys if [00:12:00] it’s made by AI.

They’ve actually made this.

Adam Baruh: 0,

Jodi Krangle: Well, yeah, but they’ve

Adam Baruh: lip syncing, but still, you know,

Jodi Krangle: it’s kind of cheating the system a little, you know, and, and I think that I’m not sure what percentage they’re expecting it to be, but I would be very careful with, you know, creativity and AI. It’s great for inspiring. It’s not good for finishing.

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Adam Baruh: yeah, no. And there’s a whole other, you know, we’re very early in AI. There’s a whole dark side of it that needs to get talked about. So it can be mitigated. I mean, I’m, you know, kind of going off on a tangent, but

Jodi Krangle: And preaching to the choir, too. Yeah.

Adam Baruh: I, I think like students, I [00:14:00] mean, you know, how easy it is for students nowadays to have to, you know, not have to do the work that I had to do back in the

Jodi Krangle: Oh, yeah. Well, it’s like, you know, we couldn’t bring a calculator into math class when I was going to school. I mean, like, you know,

Adam Baruh: Yeah,

Jodi Krangle: these

Adam Baruh: even have, there were, you know, we didn’t even have computers back

Jodi Krangle: yeah. Oh,

Adam Baruh: like go to the library and pull the encyclopedias or whatever. So,

Jodi Krangle: Yeah. I mean, I remember those

Adam Baruh: on a huge tangent there, but I’m staying on topic. Um, let’s talk about. Okay. So you, you had another podcast previously, but with the current one, I think the current one you’ve been doing since 2019, if I understood that

Jodi Krangle: Yes.

Adam Baruh: um, but let’s go back further a little bit about your background.

You mentioned already, um, songwriter, musician, um, but take us back to, you know, your background, what you’re passionate about and ultimately, um. What inspired you to get into podcasting? Um, and then also just working through that process of like creating your first [00:15:00] podcast, going from concept to reality.

Jodi Krangle: Oh, big question. Um, first off I, I have been a singer since I could talk. So that’s my musician background. I also love computers and the logical end of that kind of thing. I’m very, I’m very business oriented. So for that, the computer has always been my go to. And as a, as a musician, As an extension of that, the internet always became, you know, a passion of mine.

So I’ve been on the internet since 94, I want to say, and I’ve been involved in various aspects of it since and love it all, but there’s always more to learn. And. Really, when I decided I was going to do a podcast, it was because I was in a business mastermind and the fellow in charge of the business mastermind, his name is Vincent Puglisi.

And I highly suggest people look him up. He’s really great with helping people figure out time [00:16:00] management and moving on to something that might not be your typical nine to five. So I think that’s a. Good thing for a lot of people to find out more information about. Anyway, I was in this business mastermind and a lot of people there were starting podcasts.

They were trying to figure out how to kind of take their passion into something further that they could make a living from. And for me, it kind of translated into, I was already Making a living in what I was doing. I’m a voice actor. I’ve been doing that full time for about 16 years now, since about 2007.

And mostly I work in the commercial and corporate narration area. So marketing, branding, advertising, that kind of area. And what I was finding was that a lot of the people who hired me were kind of tacking me on my voice as. the last thing they thought about. It was the, the, you know, bow on the present or the icing on the cake.

It wasn’t really anything they thought about to begin with. And I was finding [00:17:00] that, that afterthought was making it hit less. It was making it less important in the end result. And it wasn’t, Like I said, hitting as well as it could have, because the melding of the visual and the audio at the same time is where you’re going to find the true gold, the memorability of having an advertising or a branding or a marketing thing land.

And I thought it was pretty important to start talking about that. So I wanted to talk about how important sound was in advertising and marketing and branding. Definitely. That’s why it’s called audio branding, because that’s. where that comes from, but also in our daily lives, I think it’s really important.

And, you know, even the sounds in hospitals and how distracting and awful they are and how it keeps us from recovering as fast as we could, even though we’re supposed to be in a healing environment, you know, things like that, uh, ASMR, binaural beats, [00:18:00] uh, understanding your creativity through sound. All sorts of really interesting topics that I’ve covered besides the usual advertising, branding, and marketing stuff.

And I, yeah, I just, I wanted to follow through on my passion. That’s really why I started it. Mm

Adam Baruh: Okay. And then, you know, I guess your arc from when you started maybe even talking about some of the tools that were available at the time and just, you know, thinking about the concept of what you wanted to do and, you know, making it happen. You know, probably less daunting for you just because you had experience, you know, around a microphone

Jodi Krangle: A little bit. Yeah.

Adam Baruh: so maybe less intimidating for you compared to others, but, you know, just maybe talk about that arc a little bit, you know, from where you started to, you know, where you’re at today and, and as well as some of the tools that you use in your own podcast, um, production. Oh

Jodi Krangle: Well, in the beginning [00:19:00] for me, it wasn’t the tools of making it that was the problem. It was the interviewing techniques. So interviewing wasn’t something I started out knowing how to do. And in a lot of cases, I think that’s the same for all of us who are hosts on a podcast. You learn as you go. And I was finding that I could start.

a, uh, a script. I could have a script, but it was not serving me as well as it could have when I was interviewing someone. Uh, like you, as you explained before we got started here, I have a bunch of questions that I do like to have in, in waiting. And if we get to them, that’s great. And if we don’t, I’m following where the conversation goes.

So it’s, in a lot of cases, active listening and knowing what my audience would like to know more about. So if my guest says something that I may know what the description or what the, [00:20:00] um, moniker stands for, but they may not, I’ll ask them to explain, you know, things like a concept that, that maybe they could explain a little better.

I want them to expound on and, and it makes it more of a. Uh, an educational experience for both of us, I think, and, and for my audience as well. I want to make sure that they’re understanding everything that’s happening. And, uh, yeah, from the beginning, I’ve always had show notes. I have not had transcriptions and that’s something that I’m developing.

And, uh, Uh, having the quote at the beginning was something that came over time and one of the things that I’ve developed into as far as the podcast changing is concerned is that inside the podcast, I don’t have advertising. I advertise my own stuff. So I talk about downloadable PDFs that I have that are free for people, but it gets them onto a mailing [00:21:00] list that I have.

And it’s kind of a funnel, but I’m not really asking them to buy anything. So, you know, I’m not making money from this podcast. It is a passion and, uh, a, um, a labor of love. And maybe I make a really nice connection with someone who’s on the podcast, and maybe they hire me as a voice actor. That’s a possibility.

But for me, it’s all about the relationships and, and forwarding the passion of sound. And the other thing that I’ve started doing is, uh, making these episodes into two parts. So I have an hour long episode, but I split it into two parts. So each of the parts is around 30 minutes. And what that does is it gives me a bit of a buffer zone.

So I do release every week on a Wednesday morning and I have not missed one yet. And we’re past 200 episodes. So. Continuing along that trend. I’m pretty sure will happen. [00:22:00] And, uh, yeah, having the two parts, the two part episodes makes it better for the guests because they get that two week focus, but it’s also better for me because then one episode takes care of two weeks.

and I don’t need to bust my butt to make sure that I have something for the next week. I’m planned way in advance.

Adam Baruh: You could take a vacation if you want to

Jodi Krangle: Oh, exactly. And I do. I totally do. There’s a, I go away in the winter. I was saying I, I hate the winter months and I go away for a little while in winter to

Adam Baruh: Jody

Jodi Krangle: a

Adam Baruh: for the people that haven’t picked up on that. So yep, I get that.

Jodi Krangle: it’s cold here in the winter and I hate snow, so I will go away for about a month and a half in the winter and spend it somewhere warmer.

And while I’m away, I don’t worry about the podcast. The podcast is taken care of previously. I’ve got enough in the can that I can be away for two months if I want to, and I can [00:23:00] still have enough episodes in the can waiting for me when I get back that once I start it. interviewing again, I’m covered. So, you know, this is, this is how I work it.

I don’t have seasons per se, but I do take winters off or, you know, the deepest part of the winter at least.

Adam Baruh: yeah, that makes sense. And, you know, you gave me the perfect segue before, which, um, was about, you know, when you were talking about scripting, but more just having the conversation flow organically and you mentioned active listening and that’s something I would love for you to expand on a little bit more because I don’t think a lot of people truly understand what active listening means or what it is, but it it, like, it’s critical like in, in an interview style where, um, you want it to be organic, where you wanna get that authenticity kind of flowing through Active listening is critical.

So if you could just kind of describe it a little bit [00:24:00] and, and what it means and how it benefits the interview.

Jodi Krangle: Sure. I don’t, I don’t have an actual definition in mind, but, but the way that I interpret it is I listen to what my, uh, my interviewed guests, uh, say, and I make sure that I ask them to, uh, expand on things that might be of interest to my listener. And that can take a lot of different forms. It really depends on what we’re talking about.

And like I said, sometimes it means explaining a moniker and sometimes it means they said something that intrigued me a little story wise, and I want to ask them a little more detail about that. And. In general, it might mean like you just did with me, things that we say lead into other things and knowing when to ask a question as opposed to just going down the list of what you have on your page.

Adam Baruh: Mm-Hmm.

Jodi Krangle: So, so [00:25:00] even though I may have a list of questions, I don’t answer them, I don’t ask them in sequence. I, I go all over the place depending on where the conversation takes us and I pay attention to what that guest is saying and where they may want to continue chatting. And for me, this is more of a conversation than an interview.

So I have a conversation with someone and when you’re having a conversation with someone, you listen to what they say and you respond to what they say and you ask them to expand on what they’re saying. And it goes on from that.

Adam Baruh: Yeah, totally. And that’s my experience as well, because in my former podcast, um, I did, like I said, I researched, um, a lot about my guests and I prepared like a good 12 or 15 questions. And, um, for the most part, I would kind of stick to those questions. I mean, I, I would let them kind of go wherever they wanted to go, but then I would kind of pull it back.

Um, cause I, you know, more kind of like a story, like keeping like a, [00:26:00] you know, beginning, middle and end. Um, but, you know, Getting into beyond the microphone, I wanted these conversations to be more organic. I wanted to, I wanted it to be more conversational and that, that requires active listening and like true to what you just said, it really letting the conversation go wherever it goes, because I, you know, every podcast is going to be different.

And so, you know, this formula may not work for everybody, but With beyond to the microphone, what I’m looking for, these like gold nuggets, these like little nuggets of wisdom, um, that oftentimes if, if I’m having the guests kind of follow my questions, I may not get to that information. As naturally as I would just by having a conversation.

So I really love that you said that I also love,

Jodi Krangle: oh, sorry, I was just going to mention, I think it’s really important. Also your podcast has a specific topic and sometimes the guest can get far and away from that [00:27:00] topic and in a, in a, in a bit of time, that’s okay. But what you want to do is you want to maybe start off with a question that gets them talking about your topic and then you want to end.

With them talking about your topic, at least so that it comes full circle. And, and that’s not to say that you can’t take the conversation wherever you want to go in the middle, but it really does still need to serve your particular audience. And your audience is there for a specific reason. In my case, they’re here because they want to know about the importance of sound.

And so I am bringing it back to that conversation every time.

Adam Baruh: and, and again, you just gave me the perfect segue because that’s exactly what I’m going to do here. As we come to a close, I’m going to ask you, um, a couple of questions on the theme of discoveries that I close with everybody. And the first is what discoveries have you made about pot, just podcasting in general, about the podcasting space podcasting community?

Um, [00:28:00] that you’ve discovered that perhaps you weren’t aware of, um, between when you got started and today.

Jodi Krangle: Uh, how welcoming it is, actually. Uh, my first exposure to that was PodFest, and I’ve become an avid follower of PodFest and a, um, a sponsor. I do that on a regular basis, and I will be there in January, and I’m part of their Facebook group, and I follow a lot of the people who are very prominent in that community, and, uh, and I love it.

And I just find the whole community super welcoming and very helpful. And it’s really interesting to draw some lines between the way that I feel about the voice acting community in the same way that I feel about the podcasting community, because in that way they’re really similar.

Adam Baruh: Yeah, I, I’ve found that like the creative spaces in general are very collaborative. I mean, the, the

Jodi Krangle: They can be.

Adam Baruh: yet it can be, I

Jodi Krangle: Yeah.

Adam Baruh: now I come from a software development background, which is very non collaborative, right? Very [00:29:00] competitive and very ego driven. And so it’s, um, amazingly refreshing to be in this space.

And so final question again, on the theme of discoveries, what discoveries have you made about yourself personally through your podcasting experience?

Jodi Krangle: Oh, my introversion has come into play way more often than I thought it would. And that’s part of what made it so hard for me to get better at the interviewing, because I want to be sensitive to what my guest wants, and sometimes it’s really hard to put myself out there in order to have that conversation.

And I had to become better at that. And also just podcasting in general. When you are a podcaster about a specific topic, people assume that you have an expertise in the topic you’re talking about. That’s why I made the transition from my first podcast into this one, because the first was not [00:30:00] a situation I wanted to be thought of as a thought leader in.

And, and so I decided this was my niche better than another one. Learning that was really tough, but yeah, being able to promote being able to put myself out there. Knowing that I need to schedule time in between the interviews to have peace and quiet, because that’s my introversion rearing it’s it’s head there.

Um, knowing how to make everything work together while still feeding my personality. And I think that’s what makes it possible for me to continue doing what I’m doing. If you’re not paying attention to how you’re reacting to. all of this in general, you can get overwhelmed and it can just become too much and you can get, you know, fearful and just decide that it’s not for you.

And I think that if you build in enough peace and enough of what fits your personality, for me, it’s [00:31:00] peace and quiet in between and being well prepared for things. Um, For others, it might be, I like having to, you know, figure out everything as I go. And I really enjoy just talking off the cuff and I really enjoy just, you know, letting the guests go and do whatever they want to do.

And I really enjoy having five podcast interviews in a day, you know, some people do and, and you have to feed whatever your personality demands. But if you do that, then you can keep doing this indefinitely.

Adam Baruh: I love that. Well, thank you so much, Jody, for coming on Beyond the Microphone today and for

Jodi Krangle: My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Adam Baruh: Jody has been a voice actor since 2007 and has worked with clients from major brands all over the world, including Dell BBVA and craft. She’s also a singer. And in 2015, she put out her own album of jazz blues and traditional tunes. You can find [00:32:00] this at Jody crinkle music. com. And over the years, she’s learned a lot about sound and how it influences people.

You can find all of these links and others in our episode show notes. So definitely check those out. Beyond The Microphone is sponsored by podcast. Whether you’re just starting out in podcasting or you’ve been at this a while and are looking to save time so you can focus on creating amazing content For your listeners, go check out Podcast, a podcast management and marketing platform designed by podcasters for podcasters with podcasts, automatic automated workflow, and AI based marketing tools.

You’ll save time and sanity and be better equipped to grow your podcasts. Thank you all for listening, and we’ll see you next time on Beyond the Microphone.

Beyond the Microphone is produced and distributed by EIQ Media Group, LLC. Elevate your emotional IQ with podcasts and content focused on entrepreneurship, overcoming adversity, stories of emotional courage, women’s health, aging, and more. [00:33:00]