BTM S1E16 Chris Marshall
[00:00:00] Welcome to Beyond the Microphone, a podcast about podcasters and the stories of how their shows came together, grew, and what they discovered along the way. I’m your host, Adam Baroum. So before we get started today, I want to talk a little bit about audio quality as a podcast host. Like, you know, what, what it really requires in terms of, uh, the format for your audio when you’re getting started, a lot of people think maybe.
Adam Baruh: You know, they need to invest thousands of dollars in this like top end audio equipment. Um, but really if you kind of survey what’s out there, you know, I think a lot of people, you know, there’s a handful of people that are probably recording in their iPhones. There’s, you know, like myself, I’m using the Shure SM7B mic because I personally go after a little bit of a higher production value and I like a good sound quality.
And, um, as you’ll see. When I [00:01:00] introduce our guests today, he he’s on a professional mic, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to be on that equipment. I mean, it just really depends on, you know, what you’re going for. What’s the content of your podcast is, you know, if the content is probably something of a serious nature, maybe.
You know, the equipment needs to kind of reflect the seriousness of what you’re doing. It’s your call. I mean, there’s no, there’s really no recipe for this is what I’m kind of getting at, but you know, kind of think about what your overall goals are and what you’re trying to achieve. But I will say the best advice, and I heard this recently too, is, you know, as you’re just getting into podcasting, if you’re just starting out, don’t spend thousands of dollars on crazy equipment, like record a series of episodes.
You know, put them out there, see, you know, confirm for yourself. This is something that you want to keep doing and then make, you know, the investment if you’re able to do so, and you want to do [00:02:00] so. Um, so anyway, that’s a little bit about audio quality. Let’s get into our. Our interview today, it’s with Chris Marshall.
He’s the host of the podcast transition matters and the author of decoding change, understanding what the heck is going on and why we should be far more optimistic about our future. So first of all, I love the optimism. I’m all about optimism and positivity. And so I’m super excited to announce you here today.
Chris, welcome to beyond the microphone.
Chris Marshall: Thank you so much for having me Adam. Yeah, it’s a pleasure to be here.
Adam Baruh: So, you know, what we do here, as I mentioned in the intro, it’s more about kind of the stories of, of podcast hosts or producers, kind of how you got into the podcasting space. Cause you know, I, like I said, as we, before we got started, you know, I myself have a story, you know, mine is kind of like, to be honest, like a little bit of a vulnerable and painful story that kind of.
Got me into podcasting. Um, amazingly, I had no ambitions or [00:03:00] thoughts ever to do what I’m doing now, but it’s more and more becoming what my passion is. So, you know, what’s, you know, how did you get into podcasting, Chris? What was, you know, I guess, what’s the backstory? What’s your background? Where are you from?
What type of work did you do before you got into podcasting and ultimately what led into transition matters?
Chris Marshall: Yeah, so yeah, great question Um, I I think like what you’ve just said I I didn’t kind of purposely set out to kind of go Okay, I want to I want to do podcasts or I want to be a podcaster. It was really I, I’m going to be honest, um, that conversations down the pub with my friends, um, and I, well, I still am a professional futurist and behavioral scientist, and I’d have these kind of really cool conversations with people all around the world, and I’d be relaying these conversations, and it was just kind of maybe several pints in, I’m going to admit, um, it was kind of this idea that you kind of go, [00:04:00] well, it’s a shame that nobody else gets to listen into these conversations.
You know, I get so much out of speaking to these people, um, and they, they, there is a ton of value there for people who just don’t have the access or reach to the, these people of knowledge. Um, and I thought, well, wouldn’t it be cool if actually when I come across these people who have something really valuable to offer some, some kind of knowledge or niche out there, wouldn’t it just be cool to get them on, on a, on a podcast?
Um, and I think podcasts work. Well for my content because it’s, it’s long format. Um, and in such a short format world, um, I do think we’re crying out for kind of those longer conversations.
Adam Baruh: Yeah. And what are the conversations about? I mean, just looking at transition matters, um, you know, I kind of picked up that it’s just kind of talking about, um, you know, different trends, mega trends, different things that are happening in the world and how they impact us. But, you know, in your [00:05:00] words, you know, what types of conversations, you know, what’s
Chris Marshall: So the premise really sets out it’s as you picked up. It’s when you look through the episodes, I only publish monthly. Um, and it’s, it’s really there for about finding these really high quality conversations and people. Um, but the premise is that. You know as a professional futurist and a behavioral scientist, so my nickname is the uncertainty scientist um, and i’ve kind of earned that because I look at how the world’s changing and the disruption and That the book decoding change you mentioned really tries to lay out a framework of How the world’s changing, but also bringing people’s awareness and alert them to the fact that we are at this pivotal moment in human history.
Um, where I don’t think we’re just on the cusp of change. We’re on the chain. We’re on the cusp of like radical social change.
Adam Baruh: your podcast
Chris Marshall: So the podcast therefore brings in people who’ve got kind of a [00:06:00] knowledge advantage or a level of expertise in specific areas, which are on the move. Um, so I’ve had guests, everything from incredible battery technicians, which is obviously really important around the
Adam Baruh: Hmm.
Chris Marshall: EV cars, um, about kind of the switch to renewable energy sources.
I’ve had investment managers who invest in companies with great culture. I’ve had neuroscientists, really anybody that can, that can bring that, that kind of knowledge to the listener. Um, and as I said, the, the, the main kind of takeaway is just big picture because from where I sit, that’s one of the things that we fail at in the modern world is we’re, we’re really, really good at what I call being hyper specialists.
Um, that that’s what we’re funneled into from the minute we leave school. Everything is about specialization. Um, but actually to see the scale and magnitude of change, which is coming today, we need to become generalists. [00:07:00] So that’s essentially what transitional maths has tries to do is it just tries to kind of get these people who have an incredible hyper specialist knowledge and broaden out the conversation to.
The big picture, the trends
Adam Baruh: So like, I have all sorts of synapses in my brain firing right now because I want to, I mean, there’s like several paths I want to go down in this conversation. So let’s, let’s start this way though. I’m going to turn it back over to you. What, in your opinion, are some of the, like, most striking trends or changes, societal changes that, that you’re seeing that, you know, you’re, Witnessing and being a part of some conversations around.
What are some of these big, massive changes that you’re seeing happening right now?
Chris Marshall: and megatrends. So where we stand right now, and this is kind of why I think we stand at this pivotal moment, um, is we’re very used to, so the model I tend to describe is this kind of layered model of the world. And each [00:08:00] layer has its own speed of updating and it’s in its own impact. So at the very top, these things change really quickly, but they don’t have much impact.
And we typically label those things like products. Under products, we have businesses, you know, we can cite cases of where businesses didn’t transition to the next thing. So this could be Kodak or it could be BlackBerry, um, companies that kind of just, just missed what was going on. Then we come down to infrastructure and this is what everybody’s now talking about.
So infrastructure is disruptive technology. Infrastructure is the best way we can produce things and think and work. Um, and live basically, and obviously now there’s a lot of conversations around AI, um, and robotics, machine learning, um, you know, go back 12 months. And it was all about blockchain and crypto.
Um, people haven’t even started talking about quantum computing and personalized medicine and nanotechnology, but those are all on the cusp as well. But where [00:09:00] I could try and direct people’s attention is the fact that all of these things are moving. And there are three layers beneath that, which when they start to initiate a change, when, when a trend originates in these three lower layers.
That’s when we are in for not just change, but radical social change. And those three bottom layers are regulation, Cultural philosophy, and then the natural environment. In the last few hundred years, we’ve really only seen change come down from the top. The products have come along and they’ve spurred new businesses.
Every 50 to 60 years we get this paradigm change in technology. Regulation responds, cultural philosophy, well we could say since the industrial revolution hasn’t really changed much. Um, and the natural environment, we’ve kind of ignored it. Um, or believed it wasn’t moving. Which whichever way around you want to look at it, but now what we’re seeing and why we at this incredible pivotal moment is we have trends and megatrends.
converging and originating [00:10:00] at every single layer on that, on that model. Um, and this is where I kind of tell people that the change coming isn’t akin to the fourth industrial revolution as is sometimes promoted and put across. This isn’t just a technology shift. Um, this is a cultural philosophy change.
Um, and it’s, yeah, it’s likely to be, in my opinion, as big as when we stopped being nomadic hunter gatherers and became a settled agrarian society. I think it’s that magnitude.
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Adam Baruh: So since you’ve kind of like self proclaimed being an optimist and, you know, being a futurist, you know, myself as a, as a father of four, [00:12:00] you know, you know, sometimes I’m, you know, again, I, and I try to have good, good mindset and a positive mindset, but sometimes you can’t help. You know, having worry about, about like for my children, like what’s, what is their future?
You know, when they’re my age, when they’re 50, what, what is that world going to look like for them? Because it could be frightening. I mean, the scale and the timing of the changes, as you said, are happening so frequently. I mean, you can’t help but feel that we are in this kind of like, you know, in terms of like a J curve of like change.
I mean, it’s like exponentially like. Just going bonkers right now. And, and so on the one hand, I, I, I worry for my kids, but being an optimist and a futurist yourself. I mean, you know, what sort of advice or, you know, could you give myself and parents or just anybody listening, like, you know, you know, maybe some positive things that are going to come out of this type of change, like [00:13:00] in your words, like, how would you describe what we can expect on a, on a positive side of things?
Chris Marshall: Yeah, good question. Um, I mean, first of all, I mean, it’s, what I’d probably say is dangerous to predict, um, you know, as futurists, we, we tend to stay well away from predictions, um, and that might throw out the question, well, what on earth do futurists do then? We tend to look at scenarios. Um, but to bring this background to optimism, um. I’d say that the world is in a very, very pessimistic state right now. It’s full of fear and anxiety about the future. And that really, I’ve got to switch hats from being a pure futurist to putting on a hat as a coach and a behavioral scientist. Um, and what we know is, is when things become uncertain, when the world becomes disrupted, which is really the other side of uncertainty, what happens is you and me, our biology, our physiology, our brain is triggered. To basically start being [00:14:00] hyper aware, hyper vigilant. It’s on the lookout for threats and it’s not just on the lookout. It clouds are very. Perception of what’s going on in the world and so I think I think a lot of the pessimism. It is not undue I think that we do really have some hurdles and obstacles up ahead But I think a lot of it is also being caused by this underlying anxiety and stress Which is therefore clouding our outlook and we can we can show this through, you know, a lot of empirical science showing that if you’re calm and you’re in that state of joy So you’re bringing yourself right the way down then actually your outlook tends to be far more optimistic Um, you tend to be more empathetic more cooperative.
You tend to be able to have those creative adaptable Mindsets you tend to be able to have those breakthroughs and insights Um, but when you’re at the opposite end when you’re kind of stressed i’m not talking about stressed out, but just you’re up there [00:15:00] You know that the world’s spinning, you know that there’s lots going on you actually start to find that Everything changes.
You become disengaged rather than rather than engaged with people and you become less social. You, your mindset turns from optimism to pessimism because your body, your brain, its function is to survive. You’re in a survival state. So I think one of the things affecting us. Uh, very much comes down to what psychology and that is that as things become more and more disruptive, more uncertain, we tend to dwell on the pessimism or the pessimistic story because it’s a survival tool.
Um, so that’s certainly one. And then if I kind of put my futurist hat. Um, I think the other thing that you, you can’t help but notice when you look back through history is just how incredible when we’re not in this stressed out state. And this is the caveat to my optimism. When we’re not in this stressed out state, we are the most [00:16:00] creative, adaptable and innovative creatures who have ever walk or swam this earth.
Um, period. I mean, there, there is. Nobody that that has kind of outdone us in that regard and so when we’re talking about change We have the abilities we have that power to do it But the irony or the really sad point is that our modern world we are being triggered so much into these Anxious and stressful states.
It’s kryptonite so I spend an awful lot of my time on the coaching side, um, just working with what I call ambitious individuals. They could be CEOs, they could be entrepreneurs, they could be investment managers, and just giving them the tools to really thrive and navigate truly disruptive periods, because if we can get our thinking straight.
We solve all the hurdles and problems up ahead. I’m i’m 100 convinced of that
Adam Baruh: Couldn’t agree more. And [00:17:00] so I wanted to kind of share an experience I had recently and kind of get your perspective on it as well. One of the like, so you mentioned AI and you mentioned crypto and these massive like technological advancements that are having a major disruption, you know, in our world today in the future.
Something that I also think is a, is a huge disruptor, like on a, on a massively positive scale and that gives me incredible optimism for the future is disruption around conversations around mental health. I mean, just normalizing mental health. I think the pandemic was a huge part of that, but I do think that, um.
You know, this was inevitable that, that at some point enough was going to be enough. I mean, I actually kind of saw this in this millennial generation, um, you know, just myself as a CEO and business leader, [00:18:00] you know, I kind of started to look at even my employees who were millennials. And I, you know, I got into just thinking that, you know what?
I think that they have a different set of expectations for the world. You know, they were raised, I’m a Gen Xer, and they were, you know, Millennials kind of came from a different way of, of being raised than I, I was. And, and what I noticed is just. Their wants and desires for the world were a lot more realistic and, and, you know, less like, they just seem to have less desire to put up with the bullshit that I put up with, like, and just, you know, coming up in my career in the business world.
And so out of that came now normalizing the mental health conversation, like, and, and ultimately. Developing that in our Children. So here’s an amazing experience. I had just this past Sunday. My wife and [00:19:00] I are, you know, in Southern California. We’re blessed with having some just great programs and stuff going on around us and You know, some friends of ours, um, not great friends.
I wish, you know, I knew them better, but acquaintances that, that we know from Oceanside where we live. Um, Evan Morrison and his wife Kristen are, well, Evan is the direct executive director of a farm up in San Juan Capistrano called the Ecology Center. And they’re an organic farm, an education center. And not only do they have this amazing open to the public Organic farm where they, you know, people can go and pick berries and and learn about what they’re doing, both from an environmental and ecological perspective and a farming perspective.
But more specifically, an educational perspective. They have a, uh, an education program they’re launching there. I think it’s been going on for a couple of years anyway. So I was there with my wife and kids picking [00:20:00] berries and when we’re walking by this one area like it’s the eco taught area and it was actually closed to the public.
But my kids. Kind of wanted to go in there and there were some people in there. So, um, my wife asked, you know, this guy who was standing there like, Oh, would it be okay if my, my kids went in there for a minute? He’s like, Oh, you know, sure. Come on in. And, you know, other people were starting to kind of stream in there.
And I heard this guy who I found out his name is Greg, um, who I came to learn. He is actually the director of their education program. And, uh, I overheard him say something that I, I think speaks to this greater. Societal change that’s happening and I mean it went to my heart when I heard him say this. He said You know, you look at, you look around here and yeah, we’re a farm, like, you know, we grow like food and it’s kind of what we’re all about and, you know, people buy our food and, you know, we do some education to the public and, [00:21:00] but more so our mission is like the farming is just a metaphor, but what we’re truly trying to grow here at the ecology center are it.
Positive mindsets in the Children who were able to educate who we are able to educate here. Um, we teach them things like mindfulness and mindset, and that’s the thing that I gives me. I mean, again, it went right to my heart and it made me think of this greater conversation that I’m, I’m I’m witnessing more and more in this day and age, conversations around mental health and, and when I see people that are invested in establishing just healthy mindsets in our children, it’s like, I mean, I’m getting a little emotional here, just thinking of my kids and, you know, the hope.
You know, for all the Children who were exposed to people like what they’re doing at the ecology center. [00:22:00] It really struck a note in me. And so how would you, you know, where would you kind of gauge not just the technological technological advancements and trends, but like, do you like, are you also witnessing this type of like mental health change in our society?
Do you think it’s kind of like, A trend maybe that’s just triggered by the pandemic and, you know, maybe a fad or is this kind of like a fundamental like direction that no, these conversations are here to stay and it’s going to be part of the norm come 5, 10, 15 years from now.
Chris Marshall: Yeah, good question and great story. Um, so The way the way I see it is I mean firstly absolutely I see these conversations, you know as a I refer to myself sometimes as a kind of high performance coach for these ambitious individuals, and I don’t think the conversations I’d have and the tools I can deliver [00:23:00] would be wanted or even, you know, there wouldn’t be conversations unless society had already kind of started to accept, okay, well, you know, there’s these things, you know, that affect our decision making, our behavior, our outlook, everything else.
So I certainly see it in my work. Um, but I, you know, kind of where let’s pull this back to trying to trends and megatrends and kind of where this sits and to come back to your question is, is this a fad? I don’t think it is. Um, so actually I dedicate an entire chapter in the book. Um, it’s called the age of awareness and I think this is the zeitgeist of the era we’re moving into.
Um, and. Let’s kind of paint this in a bigger picture. I think the pandemic absolutely accelerated things. I don’t think it’s the, the origination. Um, I kind of, the way I see this is we, we came through, let’s peel this back to, to the, the current piece of technology that’s kind of spurred [00:24:00] on our current era, and that is the semiconductor, um, 1970, 1971, uh, semiconductors. Uh, invented and really what that’s allowed us to do is just to measure stuff incredibly well, insanely well, all these big databases. I mean, we’ve even had to invent new words like data mining. Um, but what data brings us, what information brings, brings us is awareness. Um, and so I say that this next era is the age of awareness and it’s not just mental health, it’s a fundamental shift.
In how we invest how we run businesses Um, so one of the stories I often often kind of give is what happened at the start of the russia ukraine war That wouldn’t have happened decades before and to kind of just very quickly recap that There was this this tanker of oil premium grade russian oil out at sea I think we were kind of [00:25:00] two, three days into the conflict.
Nobody would touch it. Um, because it was Russian and it was the last known price. I think was like 20 percent below market price to a corporation. That is in, in the old model, a reason to get out the champagne and just go, Oh my word, the profit we’re about to make on this transaction is, is mind blowing. Um, what happened was it was, it was eventually bought three days after it was bought. The global CEO of that company stepped out and he turned around and he said, I’m so sorry. We have got this completely wrong. We’ve done the wrong thing. We’ve put profit before motive morals. Um, and not only are we going to donate every single bit of the profit we make on this to the Ukraine effort, but we’re going to pull out of Russia and we’re going to do X, Y, and Z as well.
And that, that company was shell. I mean, we’re not talking small companies here.
Adam Baruh: Right.
Chris Marshall: And in the age of awareness, everything shifts. It’s down to corporations, how they’re run, [00:26:00] how we invest, how we communicate with each other, and how we look at ourselves. Um, and you know what, what you’ve just described with that farm, absolutely.
We’re coming back, I actually think we went through a period of time, and again, most of these things, I think this is one of the big lessons of transitional matters, is that trends have massively long tails. That we tend to only come when they make it to the mainstream We’re suddenly shocked by it like oh my word.
Where’s this come from? But actually if you look back, they’re very slow moving That’s the beauty of trends is they tend to be very stable paths um And and what we’ve done over the last i’m going to pull it back a couple of hundred years actually Is we have kind of divorced ourselves from our emotions So, I’m going to throw René Descartes under the bus here, um, you know, he was the one that came out with the phrase, um, I think, therefore I am, um, which, you know, if we pull that apart and really [00:27:00] question what that says, it’s, I’m a product of my thinking.
In that world, you don’t want to get thrown around by your emotions, because you are your emotions. What we’re now realizing is we’re not. That the mind is just this incredibly creative source of thought, but we’re not those thoughts. They’re independent to us Um, and what neuroscience and everything else is bringing forward which is all helping this age of awareness Is we’re starting to understand that that really kind of all of these things that we’ve run away from these negative emotions And that we’ve tried to reframe to just have positive thoughts.
They’re important bellwethers. They’re important signals that are Nervous system is trying to bring our brain’s attention to. Where we get it wrong is we then put massive parts of energy behind them. So an emotion is meant to, a negative emotion, a signal of threat, is meant to last 90 seconds. Whenever I say this to somebody, they kind of go, hold [00:28:00] on a minute, I can be angry for more than 90 seconds?
And I’m like, yeah, I bet you can, so can I. But after that, the body’s done its job of raising this alert to you. After that, we are paying attention to it and we’re ruminating, which we’re trying to solve it, or trying to kind of go, oh, what does this mean for us? And so what we’re really coming round to is we’re, we’re becoming a lot more compassionate with ourselves, but I think we’re just at the very tip of this, by the way.
Um, and when this comes full circle, that is the thing that’s the. To me, um, of overcoming all these hurdles and threats ahead of us is once we really understand this and push this forward and develop those more than mine state, mine, mine state, I’d call it, um, then then we unleash. Are creative, adaptable selves like we’ve never seen before.
Adam Baruh: Yeah. Um, thank you for that. So as we wrap up here today, I want to ask a couple questions on [00:29:00] the theme of discoveries. So first of which is, you know, in regards to podcasting and, and your podcasting journey, what, what discoveries have you made about podcasting in general that either reaffirmed what you thought about it or.
You know, that you didn’t know about, you know, before you got into podcasting that you know today. Mm
Chris Marshall: I think that’s really easy. I knew nothing about podcasting when I got into it. I mean, like zero. Um, I had to actually, so this was one of the things in the COVID pandemic. So mine, I think my podcast launched September. 2020. Um, and it was this era of, if you kind of remember back to that, where I don’t know, there was this general feeling that you could just try stuff.
During covid that nobody was expecting this incredible professional quality Because it was like well people are just working at home. I was in the investment industry At the time still am and [00:30:00] you know, suddenly we switched to these like daily, uh, seminars or online videos I was doing for clients and I was just using whatever equipment I had at home because we just needed to communicate with clients and it was that kind of environment that was like, do you know what?
I just, I’ll just throw myself into this and just see what happens. I think it’s like you said right at the start, I didn’t start with really super cool equipment. I just started with whatever I had and it was kind of a mobile phone and. And just kind of getting it out there. Um, so for me, I’ve learned a lot.
Um, and I think the other thing that has been an incredible journey during this is just relaxing as a, as a host in particular, um, I’m always fine when people ask me questions, I can talk forever, um, but as a, as a host. Like, I’d have questions perfectly scripted and I’d just, like, read them off. Now, I’ve relaxed into myself and just gone, you know [00:31:00] what, just let the conversation flow.
Adam Baruh: Yeah. No, I think I kind of align with that same journey. Um, You know, where I felt more comfortable, like, writing an outline and kind of having everything scripted and… Ultimately, what I learned over time is to just kind of let conversations go where they go. Um, you know, but there’s So many different formats.
I mean, people like go into an episode, an interview with nothing scripted. It’s just a whole flow. Right. And that’s cool. I, I listen and I follow many of those, but, uh, you know, ultimately, you know, for, for people listening, you know, your podcast could be anything you want it to be. Like you don’t, don’t feel like you need to kind of fit a model because that’s what you think people are expecting.
Like just. You know, make attempts to more be yourself and just kind of tap into what feels good to you and, and what you produce, the content that you produce is gonna, you know, if it’s aligned with [00:32:00] you and it’s authentic, you know, people are gonna like it and they’re gonna follow it. So second question on that theme of discoveries, what discoveries have you made about yourself through your podcasting experience?
Chris Marshall: Oh, again, I, you know, actually it’s been, it’s been quite a transformational journey. Um, the, I, I think there’s a, I think there’s an attention you pay to conversations when you’re recording them that you don’t, when you’re just having them kind of over, over zoom or on the phone or kind of even, even face to face.
Um, and so, as I said, you know, the starting point for me was just, I wanted to get the conversations I was already having. Kind of out there to the public. Um, but the change that I didn’t anticipate was just kind of how much more attention I’d pay to them. Um, and I think that’s the takeaway is that they, they have fundamentally kind of [00:33:00] molded a lot of my thinking and sharpened my questioning skills and things like that.
Um, and, uh, yeah, I think, I think it’s, I think it’s kind of been those two things, which are the biggest
Adam Baruh: Yeah, incredible. Um, well, you know, wrapping up and you know, with the theme of awareness as you know, you described, you know, the coming age of awareness, you know, you’ve definitely raised my awareness to some ways of thinking about looking at the future. So thank you so much for your time today and for coming on beyond the microphone.
It’s been a pleasure.
Chris Marshall: takeaways. Thank you so much for having me.
Adam Baruh: Chris Marshall is the host of the podcast, transitional matters, trends, megatrends and transitions in which he looks at the most important trends and transitions going on around us and how they impact our lives. He’s perhaps better known as the uncertainty scientist describes his mission as helping ambition and vision.
Individ. Do that one over again. He is perhaps better [00:34:00] known as the uncertainty scientist. And describes his mission as helping ambitious individuals navigate and thrive in truly disruptive environments. Chris’s background is rooted in two fields of work. First, understanding how the world is changing as a professional futurist and macro investing strategist.
Providing a framework in his book, Decoding Change. Understanding what the heck is going on and why we should be far more optimistic about our future. And that was published in 2022. Beyond the Microphone is sponsored by PodTask. Whether you’re just starting out in podcasting or you’ve been at this a while and are looking to save time so you can create amazing content for your listeners, go check out PodTask, a podcast management and marketing platform designed by podcasters for podcasters.
With PodTask’s automated workflow and AI based marketing tools, you’ll save time and sanity and be better equipped to grow your podcasts. Thank you all for listening and we’ll see you next time on Beyond the [00:35:00] Microphone. And real quick, I think I screwed up in the outro. Is it transitional matters or transition matters?
Chris Marshall: Uh, yeah. Transitional. Yeah. Yeah.
Adam Baruh: Okay, I got it right.
Chris Marshall: Yeah. You got it right.
Adam Baruh: need to rerecord that then. Awesome. Hey, that was my pleasure and a fascinating conversation. So I’m going to stop.
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