BTM S1E9 Jenilee Samuel
Adam Baruh: [00:00:00] Welcome to Beyond To The Microphone, a podcast about podcasters and the stories of how their shows came together, grew, and what they discovered along the way. I’m your host, Adam Baru. So as we do with each of these episodes, I’d like to talk a little bit about, um, a podcasting topic before we get into our guest interview here today.
And today, I, I wanted to talk a little bit about competition because one of the things I’ve seen out there, um, being spoken about is this idea of. You know, should I start a podcast on X subject? Because there’s already so many podcasts on that subject, right? And that, I mean, there’s, there’s truth to that.
I mean, yeah, there’s a lot of podcasts out there, and more and more are launching each day. But here’s the thing, there’s only one you. There’s only one you [00:01:00] that has your perspective on whatever the subject is that you want to talk about. And it doesn’t really matter if there’s a hundred other people talking about, you know, business, podcasting.
There’s only one you, and you’re gonna bring your perspective and your authenticity and your life history into. The stories that you tell on your podcast into the perspective that you have, so don’t worry at all if there are other podcasts on the subject. My former podcast, the change was on servant leadership and mental health.
There’s a lot of mental health podcasts, but I did find that I, I had a large growing audience because, you know, I like to think that, you know, by me sharing my story and how, how I got into podcasting and, and, um, And really why the mental health subject was important to me. That resonated with people. And so be yourself.
You know, I think [00:02:00] really your competitive advantage is your authenticity, right? That’s what people want to hear. You know, they’re, I find that people are less interested in really just kind of like subject matter information than they are in hearing about your authenticity. So make sure you bring that because.
With that and, and how you bring your individuality into your podcast is going to be how you build your audience. You, your audience is out there. They will find you and they will become lifelong listeners because they’re connecting with your message and your story and the way that you’re opening up and being authentic in the way that you’re telling it.
So again, don’t worry if there’s a bazillion other podcasts out there doing, you know, the same subject, go for it. Just go for it and be yourself and just focus on why you’re getting into the work that you’re doing. Okay. The audience will find you. So with that, let’s go ahead and introduce our guest here today generally.
[00:03:00] Samuel, a mom, pastor, wardrobe stylist, and host of the Java with Jen podcast, hearing God’s voice for everyday life. In her podcast, she doesn’t pretend to be perfect, but she hopes to encourage and inspire you with. Authenticity and real life advice. Her podcast has an outstanding Listen, score on listen notes of 44 and is ranked in the top 1%.
So Jen, welcome to Beyond the Microphone.
Jenilee Samuel: Thank you so much. I’m glad to be here.
I’m so happy that you’re here and, um, I know that you have a mastermind also launching on September 10th, so I, I’d like to get into that, um, in our discussion, um, today. But let’s start with your story. Like what kind of brought you into the podcasting fold. Yeah, absolutely. So, um, it wasn’t something I had ever planned on doing. it really came about because as a pastor and particularly a female pastor, um, I grew up in [00:04:00] ministry and loved doing ministry, and I felt like, oh, I’m called to preach and do all the things that we see the men doing actually.
And, um, But once I got married and moved to Southeast Texas, uh, something happened and all the opportunities I had experienced as a single person, um, preaching and teaching the word and all these different things didn’t really, I didn’t see these opportunities happening as a married person, even though we were.
Pastors together. And so after years and years of frustration and hurt and confusion and not knowing what I was doing and, and feeling like maybe it’s possible people or culture can stand in the way of me doing what’s in my soul. Finally broke up with that idea after two months of misery and decided, you know what?
I am the only person that gets to give an account for my life, and so I’m just gonna find a way to steward these gifts. And podcasting looked like the least intimidating, most [00:05:00] approachable way to get my voice out. It, it was more, it was a lesser known. Way of communication when I started. And so it, it felt very non-threatening and uh, it was actually quite a bear for me to learn.
’cause I didn’t know anything about online anything at that point. And so I learned, I feel like I’ve gotten two college degrees just learning all the things that I’ve learned to get my show going. But here we are and I’m enjoying it a lot.
Adam Baruh: So Jen just gave a beautiful, um, opening intro, and you may be noticing that she has a different background. So this is real life podcasting here. We, we are recording on a platform called Riverside, which depends on internet. Um, sometimes the internet isn’t on board with, uh, wanting to play ball. So, um, she had to move locations.
So we are moving forward because guess what, in podcasting. The show must go on. So thank you for re for rejoining, [00:06:00] um, and for that beautiful opening intro. And I wanted to, so you mentioned some challenges and, um, with getting started that it, you know, it seemed like the less, um, Intimidating, uh, you know, format to engage in.
But at the same time, like you, you self-described some challenges that you ran into there, and with a background in ministry, I, I imagine you have some public speaking skills and and experience there, right? So tell us a little bit about what some of those challenges were like and, and bring yourself back to that concept phase.
Like, you know, going from like where that seed was implanted in your brain with, oh, hey, I should do a podcast to. The concept phase where now you’re kind of like thinking about your podcast premise, who your audience is, equipment, I mean, the whole thing, and then ultimately going into your launch.
Jenilee Samuel: Yes. Well, I do feel like my background in ministry helped as far as the [00:07:00] communication side and being comfortable talking and communicating. That was the easiest side of it, to be honest. The hardest side was, I didn’t know what SS e O was. I didn’t know what an R S SS feed was. I didn’t know what a dynamic microphone versus a, whatever the other one condenser microphone was.
I didn’t know any of the things that most people need to know to do this. And so when I started, I actually applied. As a podcast on Apple. And so it took like six weeks for them to even approve me as a podcast. And then after that I found Anchor, which was like Anchor. Now it’s Spotify for podcasters. And so basically the tools were di were very different.
Now I feel like there’s so many tools with automation built in and AI built in that it’s a lot easier and seamless to do all the things from recording to editing to whatever. And because, you know, being a mom and. Having all the responsibilities that I have, I was like, how can we do this in a way that’s not cumbersome or complicated?
And so I had to learn [00:08:00] about social media marketing and using Instagram intentionally to build my audience. And so just everything that podcasting touches I had to learn. I had no graphic design experience, so I had to learn Canva. And honestly, I chose audio podcasting because I didn’t wanna have to put makeup on and be camera ready.
But I do interviews and so I still gotta be camera ready, so I’m getting on YouTube eventually. And so anyways, it was just a lot of different things that I just had no idea what I was doing and, and I didn’t have a budget to hire a coach. So I was scrappy. Free mc, free rson, and doing things as cheaper, free as possible.
And so that I think is the longer, probably more confusing path because I didn’t have anyone to just tell me, this is worth it, this is not worth it. Move forward. So,
Adam Baruh: I think that’s such a common story too. Um, and you know, there’s so much information out there when you start Googling stuff. I feel like that can even cause more of a feeling of o overwhelm because it’s like, okay, well there’s so many recording platforms, how. Where do I even, you know, [00:09:00] figure out what to record on?
Not only that, then you have your hosting platform, you got your editing, like you said, all your marketing stuff. If you don’t have, I mean, for me, I, I have a career in IT and e-commerce, but even still, um, marketing is still something that is, it’s not exactly in my forte. Um, so it still is a little bit of a challenge.
Um, so let’s, let’s put a timeframe around this. Like how long ago was this? What year did you get started?
Jenilee Samuel: I got started in 2000. 17. Um, and I was planning to launch in August of 2017. I, I actually got started in like January or February. I was trying to figure out what I was doing and so I was gonna launch in August and then our house flooded in Hurricane Harvey. And so we had like 10 feet of water in the house.
So we lost everything. Had to totally start over from scratch. So I was like, ah, we need to find a home. Let’s figure out recording podcasting later. And so, which honestly probably could have made a really neat series. Of [00:10:00] episodes people could have followed our story ’cause it was a, a really beautiful experience.
But, um, so that delayed it for a year. So I’m in season four, really going into season five. So I would say probably 2018 is my real technical launch year.
Adam Baruh: And I mean, I don’t know. For me, that feels, even though podcasting was around, you know, for a while before that, even 2018 feels like OG podcasting.
Jenilee Samuel: It does.
Adam Baruh: because the landscape, um, has changed so much. So when I first got into podcasting, this was, I believe October of 2021 was when I launched my first show.
And even between then and now, I mean, you know, really like with the technologies that are out there for recording and editing. So I would say Riverside descrip and definitely AI are the massive game changers that even though over the last year we’ve seen so much advancement in, so back when I got started and the reason, you know, I spoke with you before.
I think it was before we hit [00:11:00] record here, we were talking about my, my first podcast, the change and, and how I got burned out from it. Um, you know, for me there were so many aspects that were really time consuming. So it wasn’t just my show, but you know, I was also at the same time producing how I made it through and between those two, it was like the coordinating between myself and the other host. What do we want for a title? Um, you know, we would have a quote at the beginning of each episode. We’d take a, a, a quote from the guest and, and put it at the beginning as kind of a hook. And so, you know, we’d have to be listening to the whole episode. We didn’t even have transcripts available to us, so we were listening and we were trying to find the quote.
So that was very time consuming, writing the show notes. Um, all of that stuff was just massively time consuming. And I imagine for you, you’ve probably seen, and I don’t know how much you’re taking advantage of a lot of the modern technologies, but tell us a little bit about what your production flow looks like now, [00:12:00] maybe compared to when you got started and, and really, you know, how you’re, how you’re using that streamlining process to also balance your life, as you said, as a pastor, as a mom of four.
Um, so how do you manage all that?
Jenilee Samuel: well I am of the philosophy smarter, not harder. And so everything that I do, I’m like, I’m like, what platforms can I. Use that, do everything in one. So I really actually love Spotify for podcasters. It used to be Anchor, but I love it because I record in there, I edit in there. Um, I can monetize in there, I can do commercials in there for them.
Um, I schedule it. I mean, it’s, it’s really a great platform and it’s free, which is even better. And so that’s where I do most of my production and which is kind of amazing because I’m not. I’m not fancy guts when it comes to the production side, just ’cause I don’t have all the equipment and I didn’t have a budget to get all the equipment and I don’t have a team.
And so I was just like, how simple can we do this? So the fact that I’m in a. [00:13:00] The top 1% with the, the most streamlined production process, I think is pretty encouraging to anyone who’s actually wanting to start too, because it doesn’t require that you have a huge production studio to make it happen. So yeah, I record, I edit, um, I insert my ads, do my intro, my hook, outro, and then it goes up and then I splash it all over social media.
Adam Baruh: Now what about, um, planning? Um, that’s something that, you know, I use a tool pod and now, um, I will, you know, for transparency there are sponsor here, so I will, um, let everybody know about that. But, I, you know, I, I like to plan things out. I like to bank my episodes so that I’m not constantly just under the schedule of having to record.
And so how do, like, how do you, do you use Excel or Trello or what, you know, what do you use to kind of plan out future episodes and, and, uh, you know, what all you [00:14:00] want to go through, like booking your guests and that sort of a thing? In, in terms of like going from start to finish with your podcast production.
Jenilee Samuel: I actually use, I created my own planners because I just, something about paper, I just like paper. Maybe that makes me old school. But I created my own planners, which I could do ’em on the computer digitally. Um, but I just created ’em in Canva. And I have an episode planner. A, um, the podcast planner, that’s for like an overview of, of my shows for the upcoming month.
I have a quarterly planner, a social media planner, and then a monetization planner that I created. All of ’em just based on what my needs were. ’cause I couldn’t find anything that I felt like really. Hit the spot for me that had, you know, my episode flow built in and my production schedule built in. And so I just made it myself.
And so I actually provide that for my students. Um, if they’re, when they’re getting started, they usually need something to work with. So I provide the templates so they can customize it to whatever their own show flow or their production flow is. And so that was a game changer for me to be able to see things [00:15:00] kind of big scale, working holidays and, um, you know, Time sensitive topics and things like that.
So that’s what I use.
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Adam Baruh: Are you still kind of doing everything on your own? Do you have a like VAs that work with you to help out?
Jenilee Samuel: Nope, I don’t. I do have a friend that I plan to hire as. Soon as possible, because now that I’ve started [00:17:00] the, um, the podcast network that I start is called Imagine Media Podcast Network. And I have that as an extension for my students that come through. They wanna continue to study and grow. Then I offer continued coaching in that.
And so between the network and then my, my three tracks for my students and then my own podcast, I need a VA really badly. So thankfully everything has been able to stay organized. Um, but yeah, no, I don’t have one yet.
Adam Baruh: So let’s, let’s go back to talking about the growth because I, I’d really love our audience to hear. What it took for you from your perspective to become a 1%, you know, a top 1% podcast. Um, I have to imagine that it took a while to get there. What was that growth trajectory like?
And also what was your experience during that time? Because, you know, I’ve had many conversations where people, sometimes, you know, you launch and there’s so much excitement, and then you’re looking at your download numbers and you’re [00:18:00] like, well, where is everybody? And it really takes a long time and it can feel dejecting, it can feel deflating to really not see, um, the growth yet.
But what was that like for you going from, you know, your history going from start to where maybe you experienced that also to, to now being, you know, a one percenter.
Jenilee Samuel: Yeah, you know, I wish I had a 100% answer for that. I’ll tell you what I’ve done. And so I, I feel like, and it kind of makes me think of like the Chick-fil-A approach and in business there’s kind of this, um, transition of when, when they’re trying to hone their business and trying to sharpen and, and bring in more growth.
Usually it’s in the subtle tiny changes that make the difference as opposed to big, massive overhaul used to be businesses were always like, let’s do a makeover, let’s do an overhaul. But now they’re realizing, hey, it’s in tightening up. The little interactions that customers have with you. And so I feel like when it comes to being found online, it’s about [00:19:00] providing the, making sure that you’re in a variety of places.
Now for some people that’s like, oh, you just stressed me out. Um, I believe in like repackaging all of your content as much as possible. And so what I’ll do when I create an episode, for example, I always do a really solid description that uses as many words that I feel like people would be searching for to find something on that topic.
So I’m trying to use ss e o terms as much as possible. Um, I still feel like that’s something I could get sharper in, but I am mindful of it. And so then I’ll take that description and I’ll post it on my blog. My blog is kind of like the junk drawer in my life, but it is there because it is a place where I can drop things intentionally.
And so I don’t ever send people to my blog, but it’s there because it still helps Google find my stuff more easily. It helps it come up higher in search results. And then I’m putting it on Instagram and I’m putting it on Facebook, and I don’t put the all those places every single week, like I haven’t posted it on my blog in a few weeks, but I do as [00:20:00] often as I am able and have the time to do.
And I think the consistency of being in, in multiple places online just helps Google find you and it helps people find you. So there’s, that’s one thing that I do. Um, and the other thing is of course, being on other shows, which normally I have people on my show as opposed to being a guest. Um, but I have started to try to get on more shows, so I’ve been on a dozen or so, and I think that does help continue to expose yourself to more audiences and introduce you.
Two new people. Um, and then every time I would start a season, so each summer I actually would shut down my podcast for like June and July and August. And so I would take a three month break, which people would think would make your, uh, momentum sufferer. But I was like, well, TV shows do it and people come back for the next season, so maybe they’ll do it for me.
And so I would shut it down in the summer, and then when I would start the next season, I would do a big launch and I would collect a few friends, a dozen people or 20 people or whatever, and say, Hey, if I post anything, can you share it? Can you just [00:21:00] create chatter online? And so I think that would also, every time I did that, it created kind of a hype and a push that also would put me in front of more people.
And so just over time kind of picked up people. There was a few times that I did actually pay for a little bit of marketing. Um, But I don’t, I don’t know how much that actually did. I don’t know how well worth that money was spent. So I just feel like it’s the consistency of doing those little things, um, to help you turn up on Google and turn up in front of people that made the differences.
That’s all I could say. I don’t know. I wish, I wish I could ask. The universe would, was responsible for that.
Adam Baruh: that’s, that’s great feedback. And, um, I’m also curious, like, what was your growth? If you look at like a graph of your, you know, download numbers over time, was it pretty like, you know, consistent or did you hit some sort of a mark and all of a sudden it just exploded?
Jenilee Samuel: I did go back and look ’cause I was wondering if the summers were hurting my momentum, but I found that when I panned [00:22:00] way back, my trajectory was still like this. And so it just was a very slow and steady incline. And so I don’t know that there was any like hot. Spots that just put me in front of a lot of people.
Um, it just seemed like it has been just a, a gradual progression. I will say though, in that process, especially in the first two to three years, I frequently cried like, where’s the people? Where’s the party? Like, I’m putting all this work in. Where’s the fruit of my labor? And so I feel like the Lord was so kind.
Every time I’d get discouraged and wanna quit, someone would give me some feedback that would be like, oh, I just listened to your episode. It was amazing. And so, I realized that in the journey of growth, you have to be motivated by your why more than anything else. If you’re not motivated by your why, everything else will at some point discourage you.
And so when those numbers weren’t there, I just went back to sometimes I’d read reviews that people had left, or just anything to remind me, this is why I’m doing this. So if I’m doing this for 12 people, It’s those 12 people that matter, [00:23:00] and I might need to reevaluate in the future if I need to pay for marketing.
But you know, just holding onto your why is actually really important, I think.
Adam Baruh: Thanks so much for sharing that because I, you know, I totally get that I’ve been there and, um, it’s what Alex Sanfilippo when he was on my show, um, you know, termed pod fade and I think so many of us run into it. Um, It’s normal. Like I’m, and the reason why I’m so happy you brought that up is it’s normal.
I think everybody goes through it. Unless you’re, you know, a true crime podcast and you just like, you know, you just find that audience right away and, and you know, everybody’s just consumed that content. I think it’s very normal and the majority of people that are putting a show together are gonna hit that, that.
Jenilee Samuel: Point in which they’re gonna question, why am I doing this again? It’s, it’s really consuming a lot of my time. It’s, it’s costly. And so thank you for sharing that. I, I did think, as you were saying that though, I do remember there was one thing that I did do that I did see an uptick [00:24:00] actually when I, my podcast was called Java with Jen. And that’s it for the first three seasons. And it drove me crazy that no one could tell by the look of my show, what it was about or if they were my ideal audience.
And so when I finally honed in deep on what my messaging was and added the subtitle, Hearing God’s voice for everyday life, I noticed immediately my plays were higher. And so I think that just speaks to the value of getting strategic with your Ss e o and your titles and your, uh, ’cause I’ve even noticed when I search on podcasts, um, for someone’s name, maybe who’s a guest, if I don’t put their name in the title of the show.
Then those episodes don’t pull up. And so whatever the title of your show is is really important and make sure you’re there. It’s loaded with keywords. And so even just the other day, I created a, um, like a shortcut list of like all the different podcast niches and top ss e o search terms using chat, g p t.
Thank you Jesus for chat, g p T. And so I’m going to actually do a [00:25:00] deeper dive on that and then go through and even retitle some of my podcast episodes. All the way back if I need to. I’ve got 150 episodes to work through. But just because that I think will really boost, um, findability. And so for those who are starting, don’t underestimate s e o, it makes a really big difference.
Adam Baruh: And, and that’s a huge awesome nugget that you just dropped on us too. Like don’t be thinking that because you’ve already published an episode that you can’t go back and. Change the title, change the show notes, um, publish a new, like replace the audio for it or whatever. Um, that’s all doable. I mean, there’s no rules preventing you from doing that stuff because really what it comes down to is you, you should leverage your SS e o, um, marketing capabilities to work for you.
So as we go to a close today, I know you have a, a masterclass program. I’d love to give you a chance to talk about that and also, you know, tell our audience how they can find out more about you and what you do. I.
Jenilee Samuel: Yeah, absolutely. So I created a mastermind, um, [00:26:00] because I had a number of people who had come to me to ask if I could help them start a podcast, and I, I helped about a half a dozen people and then, More people were coming. And so I was like, how can I help people better than what I’m doing? ’cause it was, it was taking a lot of time.
And so I put together a mastermind and I had about a dozen people come through it that first time. And it was, it was gangbusters successful. Like it was, it, it went so well. And considering that was my first time through it, it, I was just really blown away by how successful it was. And so I, I built it now where it, it spans over 10 weeks.
And the reason I do that is because you can start a podcast sooner than that. You can learn the things probably in a more condensed way than that, but I wanted it to be something that can build into. Their full-time job, lifestyle or raising a family or whatever without it becoming a burden. And so we do cram a lot in those 10 weeks.
I teach them everything from the technical side and you know, dreaming up their show and the purpose of their show and [00:27:00] recording and editing and interviewing, and then we go into monetization and branding and, uh, growing your show and all. Like I cover as much as possible in that 10 weeks. So they have.
As many valuable tools as possible. Um, and so yeah, it’s wonderful. And so the shows that came out of there, they are light years ahead of where I was when I started, and I’m so proud of them. And so I am launching the, the next round for it, um, September 10th. And so enrollment is open for that. And uh, actually I have a discount code if anybody hears our interview and comes from your show, uh, behind the mic.
Is a discount code to get them $200 off, and so that way I know they heard from listening to your show.
Adam Baruh: Fantastic. Um, all right, so I always close with the same two questions. Um, so they’re on the theme of discovery, so. The first is, what discoveries have you made just about podcasting, you know, since you got started with your show.
Jenilee Samuel: Hmm. I feel [00:28:00] like one of the most valuable ones is that. Everybody has a story. It’s really easy for us to, there’s certain people that may be naturally more interesting to us than other people, but I’ve found that if you sit down and you talk to anybody, everybody has a story and everybody’s story can, can encourage you, can challenge, you can enrich your life somehow.
And so I feel like my podcast has fed me as much as it has fed my listeners because of that very thing.
Adam Baruh: Awesome. And so the last question also on the theme of discoveries. Um, what discoveries have you made about yourself personally that perhaps you. Didn’t know before you got into podcasting.
Jenilee Samuel: Hmm, that’s a good question. Um, I can learn really fast. Apparently, all the things that I had to learn, uh, I, I did learn that everything’s scary at first because it’s unfamiliar, but if you can hang with it until it becomes familiar, it will no longer be scary. And [00:29:00] so I learned that about myself. So when I get intimidated or I want to throw in the towel with something new, I just remind myself, I’m like, generally just stick with it until it’s normal and then it won’t be scary anymore.
And so, yeah, it’s the learning curve. I had to learn so many things that learning how I learn, that was a discovery.
Adam Baruh: Awesome. Well, thank you for sharing that, and thank you so much for coming on and being a guest here today on Beyond the Microphone.
Jenilee Samuel: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me.
Adam Baruh: Jenilee is the host of Java with Jen podcast, hearing God’s voice for everyday life where she normalizes and makes practical the Christian value of learning to hear God’s voice. She has a globally ranked top 1% podcast program that is listened to in over 80 countries and has hosted over 60 guests from all walks of life.
Many of our audience have said, listening to her show feels like sitting down with a cup of coffee or tea to talk about the things that matter in life in an authentic, disarming and encouraging time together. And that’s just [00:30:00] how she likes it. Her passion for helping people has expanded to include training aspirate, sorry. I’ll start that one over. Her passion for helping people has expanded to include training aspiring podcasters and helping them get their dream podcast created in just 10 weeks with Jen at their side coaching, guiding, and cheering them on, she teaches them all the smarter, not harder essentials for recording, growing, and monetizing their shows without the guesswork of doing it on their own.
No wasted tears, money, or time here. Her program is built to take students step-by-step, one bite at a time so it can be built into their lives, even alongside a full-time job or kids without the overwhelm. Her new Mastermind program kicks off on September 10th to find out more about it, click the link in the episode show notes.
Are you stuck trying to take your podcast to the next level? Do you need help with marketing or post-production? At E I Q Media Group, we offer podcast [00:31:00] coaching, production, editing, and marketing support. Head on over to www.eiqmediallc.com to learn more. If you’re enjoying beyond the microphone, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you’re listening, as well as to our YouTube channel.
You can find links to all of these in our episode show notes. Thank you all for listening, and we’ll see you next time on Beyond the Microphone.
EIQ Media: Beyond The microphone is produced and distributed by E I Q, media Group L L C. Elevate your Emotional IQ with podcasts and content focused on entrepreneurship, overcoming adversity, stories of emotional courage, women’s health, aging, and more. [00:32:00]
BTM S1E9 Jenilee Samuel