[00:00:00] Welcome to beyond the microphone, a podcast about podcasters and the stories of how their shows came together, grew, and what they discovered along the way. I’m your host, Adam Barou. So before we get into our interview today, um, with Derek Goodwin, I’d like to talk a little bit about the business side of running a podcast.
Adam Baruh: Um, cause I think, you know, when I introduced my guest here today, I think he’ll be able to speak to it a little bit just based on, um, some of what I read in his profile, but I used to host a podcast called the change, which. To be honest, like that’s more in line with my mission. Um, the work I do through EIQ media group is really trying to build our collective consciousness around things like emotional intelligence and empathy.
So I used to host a podcast called the change, which was on servant leadership and, and kind of the mental health, um, [00:01:00] aspect and how our professional lives. Um, kind of are a part of our mental health landscape and really trying to normalize, you know, those conversations. And I, I mean, I had a great time. I did a whole season of that show and got to meet a lot of great people.
But you know, in talking about kind of the business side of putting a podcast together, you know, there was a lot that went into each episode. Now I did publish biweekly, so I had, you know, a week. In between to kind of get ready for my next interview, but I interviewed a lot of authors and I would want to read their books like so that I felt prepared in going into an interview.
And yeah, I read like a lot of great books, but it started to weigh in where it was. It started to become a real crunch on my time. You know, now I have the benefit of I have a sound engineer and I’ve got an assistant and I’ve got. You know, marketing people that were all working with me, but still just like, you know, [00:02:00] the process of putting an interview together and outline and scripting that interview.
Although I would, you know, I would script some basic questions, but let the conversation flow organically. But it got to the point because I’m also, you know, running two other businesses that. I had to make a decision like do I move forward with this because I’m not able to continue putting in my best like I want to like with each interview that I do, I want to be fully present and fully prepared and it was starting to feel like I was going into those interviews, not You know, able to achieve that.
And so, you know, as, as you’re putting your podcast together, like don’t, don’t be afraid to pivot is I guess my main point. Like if you’re doing it for a while and it’s really not working out, like you’re losing some, you know, life balance type of stuff and it, it starts to feel like work, like maybe think about doing [00:03:00] something different that’s a little bit more streamlined.
This podcast beyond the microphone, I put it together with a lot of intention to make it very streamlined. Like I do gather some, you know, a bio and some information about the guests, but they, these episodes don’t require a lot of. Preparation. It’s more. I allow the guests to come in and tell their stories.
Um, so that is going to enable me to still do what I love doing, which is, you know, having conversations around people’s stories, how they got into podcasting, because I think everybody that is doing it has a, has a story to tell. And that’s what I love doing. And I love having these types of conversations.
So I created in with intention. A format of a podcast that is going to be less conducive to that burnout. It’s, it’s, it’s going to be more conducive for me just showing up and having a great interview and being able to turn these around because I do turn them around weekly. So there’s, [00:04:00] you know, there’s quite a bit of demand, you know, to do the editing and all that stuff.
So anyway. The point is, you know, for, for you guys listening out there, don’t be afraid to pivot. Always, you know, take steps with intention around what you’re doing and check in with yourself and make sure if you’re starting to feel burnout and anxiety around what you’re doing, like check in. Are you still in alignment with what your goals were when you set out with your podcast?
Because Hey, probably. And as our guest here today will tell you, like he’s had multiple podcasts. It’s okay. To pivot and do something different, like you’re still making a difference. And that’s the important thing. So with that, like to introduce Derek Goodwin, a self described OG podcaster and current host of the podcast.
Don’t forget yoga podcast. So Derek, welcome to beyond the microphone.
Derek Goodwin: Hi, Adam. Thank you.
Adam Baruh: Yeah, you bet. So yeah, tell us a little bit about your background and career before podcasting and you know, that [00:05:00] self description as an OG podcaster. I mean, you’ve been doing this for a while now going back to, I read 2005 with the vegan radio podcast. So let’s go all the way back there. I mean, where, what were you doing up till then?
Like, and then kind of where did this idea of a podcast come to be and, and ultimately like take us from there. to then the Warrior One podcast and ultimately the podcast that you’re hosting today.
Derek Goodwin: right. Well, we’ll get to that. Those two are, that was my pivot between those two. But, um, back in 2005, I was super deep into veganism, um, and being an activist. And, um, I lived in Northampton, Massachusetts, and we had a radio station opening that was community run, low power FM. And so… I thought, wow, that’d be cool to have a radio show about [00:06:00] veganism, but you know, it’s only going to reach, who knows, ten people at a time or something.
But at the same time, Apple was coming out with the iPod, podcasting had just started, and my best friend, who was also vegan, was… As a Mac programmer. So he was deep into the technology. And so we said, well, we should make a podcast and the podcast began as just recording radio show and then putting it onto, into the RSS feed.
Um, I imagine, I think we built our own website and everything at that point.
Adam Baruh: Yeah, like what were even the players back then? Like how did people find and listen to
Derek Goodwin: Well, uh, I believe Mark Maron was getting started around then. So the WTF, um, there was a, the other big vegan podcast was called Vegan Freaks and they had a book. [00:07:00] So they were, they were a little ahead of us. Um, out of that. I didn’t really have a business plan but over time it really plugged me in with the vegan movement and I got to interview a lot of the movers and shakers.
Um, I’m also a photographer so I was photographing big events and Also going to the animal sanctuaries and photographing animals. I became kind of famous for that. And so it all worked together. So for me, podcasting was associated not as much with making money, but just really having fun and meeting people and getting access to things I wouldn’t have gotten access to normally.
Adam Baruh: Mm hmm.
Derek Goodwin: And then, um, but over time I ended up moving to New Orleans and couldn’t do the radio show anymore. And. At the [00:08:00] end, it just became a podcast standalone and I would take a little longer to make episodes and started really playing around with narrations and putting in sound effects and original music and things.
Adam Baruh: Oh, cool.
Derek Goodwin: So that’s the vegan radio story.
Adam Baruh: Okay. And then, yeah, the Warrior One podcast. First of all, what, you know, what’s the premise behind that one? And kind of how did you make your way from the vegan radio podcast to that one? Mm
Derek Goodwin: so I always had felt like I wanted to get back into podcasting. I always missed it. Um, And I was living in New York City, uh, working for an international yoga brand. I was a yoga teacher by then. And as I was, I went through a big breakup and I decided I was going to move out of the city, but I had this idea that I wanted to create a new podcast.
This is 2019. So I interviewed a couple, [00:09:00] um, big name yoga teachers in the city on my way out. I ended up. in Colorado, Boulder, Colorado, after a little while. And then, then it was 2020 and the pandemic hit.
Adam Baruh: Mm hmm.
Derek Goodwin: And so the timing was really good because I couldn’t do photography. I couldn’t teach yoga. I had time by myself with these interviews I’d recorded, but I also, because of the isolation, just found myself playing a lot more music. So when I launched Warrior One as a, as a yoga pose, but I also have this kind of idea of an earth warrior or something. And the premise. That was a part I didn’t have too well. The premise was how do we best live this one brief magical life? I was mostly talking about yoga metaphysics, but I started weaving in music and the first episode it was just Kind of background music.
The second episode, I [00:10:00] actually had a couple of original songs that were
Adam Baruh: Oh, awesome.
Derek Goodwin: not specifically connected, but you know, there were songs about yoga and,
Adam Baruh: K?
Derek Goodwin: and then by the third one, I had integrated the, the interview into verses and choruses and had made, but it was super elaborate. And like you were talking about before, I didn’t get burned out.
It was the favorite thing in my life, but. It took weeks to make an episode, so it wasn’t really sustainable and it wasn’t a business model or anything.
Adam Baruh: Yeah.
Derek Goodwin: So that’s when I did my pivot. I joined the Grow the Show podcast accelerator, which you know about.
Adam Baruh: Yep.
Derek Goodwin: And um, And kind of went back to the drawing board.
Who’s my audience? What do I want to offer them? And I kept trying to fit Warrior One into some box of who the [00:11:00] audience would be but it seemed impossible because I had all these different ideas that were going into it so I at one point I woke up in the middle of the night and I said I had this thought, like, I should just create something new
Adam Baruh: hmm.
Derek Goodwin: that’ll serve and still keep the things that I love.
So, like you, I realized I really needed to streamline, make the episodes short, concise, just one theme so I could output regularly and be consistent, because that’s always been my struggle
Adam Baruh: Yeah. Yeah. Consistency is, is the name of the game. Um, so how, you know, with, with your current podcast, like, are you weekly, biweekly? What’s your, what’s the schedule like and, and, um, like who are, I guess, what’s the format? Like, what do you, who, who’s your audience and how are your episodes structured and that sort of thing?
Derek Goodwin: so my audience is new yoga teachers. Um, my, uh, origin [00:12:00] story with the podcast is that I’m a yogi who has trouble remembering all the anatomy and all the yoga philosophy. So I’ve, one of the things that I also have been doing through this time is just creating little songs that help me remember anatomy.
So I have one like, the pelvis is the basin of the body. Connects the spine to the hips and places we get naughty. It’s like a bowl with a big hole, an inlet and an outlet, yo. One sacrum, two hip bones, and a coccyx. So I have, I have these crazy little songs. So, so the tagline for the podcast is it’s um, to help new yoga teachers. Absorb yogic wisdom with music, mantra, and mnemonics. And so that’s the starting point, but obviously I can’t write a new song every time I make an episode, so some of the [00:13:00]episodes are just short me talking about something. It turns out in yoga anatomy there’s, or in human anatomy, there’s a ton of mnemonic devices that students use to learn things, so that’s one thread, um.
And then the philosophy is another thread. So I also do interviews with yoga teachers and, um, my goal is to start also interviewing people who are memory scientists and things like that to just really hone in on this thing about memorization and how a yoga teacher could use it to enhance their teaching and offerings.
Adam Baruh: Yeah. I’m like personally as somebody who like. And it’s very infrequent. Um, much to my wife’s chagrin because she is a yoga teacher as well. Um, but I’m always fascinated by how, you know, As a yoga student, like I’ll be in a practice and you know, the, [00:14:00] the instructor has, you go through a long series of events and I’m not even, I’m not, you know, remembering what we’re doing, but then all of a sudden it’s like 10 minutes goes by and now they’re working on kind of the counter moves of, of those, you know, sequences right there.
And I’m like, how did they remember that we did all these things on the right side and now, you know, to do the same things on the left side. So, yeah, there’s gotta be. Quite a bit of memorization, I think, that comes into play there. Um, but I want to bring it back to the Grow the Show program. Like, what were your big kind of takeaways?
Um, you know, has it, have you been able to apply some of those concepts? And, I mean, are you seeing growth in your podcast? Like, what, you know, kind of what you’re expected to get out of the Grow the Show program? Are you seeing, are you seeing that come into fruition for you?
Derek Goodwin: Right. Um, so when I went in, I had the expectation that I was going to transform warrior one. [00:15:00] Um, and so, but that the exercises, you know, Kevin, the, the director or overseer of the whole thing
Adam Baruh: Yeah. Kevin
Derek Goodwin: really good at.
Adam Baruh: hmm. Mm
Derek Goodwin: really great at, um, creating structure, I think. So, just this process of figuring out my audience. do I want to do? What do I love about podcasting? And then the coaching bit, um, Jeremy. It was my coach
Adam Baruh: hmm.
Derek Goodwin: and, uh, he really kept, kept me moving, pushing me to the finish line.
Adam Baruh: Oh, good.
Derek Goodwin: so, so I started really strong with about an episode a week, slowed down a little bit because my photography business had a big surge of activity. And um, uh, I, I don’t want to talk too, if I tell you the whole story of my life, everything will take too long, but, um, [00:16:00] let’s see.
Adam Baruh: Yeah. I guess just big picture, like, are you able to, are you, did you get like a foundation with the grow the show program that, that is giving you that structure to, to grow? I mean, ultimately that’s the name, that’s the name of their program, right?
Derek Goodwin: Yes, the short of it is I love the program. I feel like I have a really strong idea that I, you know, hone down. I’ve got, um, the show is concise and doing everything I want it to do. The part I’m working on now is getting interviewed on other podcasts. So, um, so I, I really appreciate you, uh,
Adam Baruh: Yeah, of course. And yeah, that, that’s, that’s a huge thing as far as like growing. Um, and I think as podcast hosts, it’s like, You know, we’re so focused on creating the content, um, as hosts that we forget that, you know, the other side of, you know, growing our own shows is [00:17:00] going to involve guest spotting, um, as much as is feasibly possible to be honest.
Like that’s, that’s my personal take on it. Like, because it’s, it’s free advertising and branding. That really the only cost of it is your time. Um, but imagine going in front of all these, you know, potential new audience members with now your message much like you’re doing here today. So, you know, for those of you listening, um, maybe you’re just starting out in podcasting as a host, like highly recommend guest spotting.
Um, like Derek is doing and really all my guests do, you know, that come on this show because they’re all podcasters. So, um, I want to ask, um, you know, Just overall, just going even back to the beginning, like what have been some of the major highlights and some of the big challenges that you’ve had to overcome as you kept moving forward in your own podcasting experience?
Derek Goodwin: Well, like I said, in the early days, [00:18:00] um, it was just fun and unique and not that many people knew what it was. And so it got me access to some higher level, or to some people who I really admired and Wanted to talk to and, um, I think that there’s so many podcasts now that some of that is a bigger leap now Like if I started a vegan podcast today, I’d just be one of a hundred or two hundred or however many there are So so that part’s shifted a little I think For me. I’m an artist and the joy of creating is is what keeps me going more than anything and I Love interviewing and meeting people And so there’s, it’s still that, that part’s still a joy. And, um, I’m sorry, I got a little off
Adam Baruh: No, I love it. I’m glad you’re still getting enjoyment from that. And that [00:19:00] is the name of the game. And so you said something just now that that is definitely hugely interesting. And I think something that perhaps a lot of people that are getting into podcasting, it may be something that kind of scares them off a little bit is this idea of saturation.
Like, you know, why would I want to go and talk about this subject? There’s, you know, 40 other podcasts talking about it. Like, what is your take on podcast saturation and how to kind of navigate through that barrier?
Derek Goodwin: Well, it’s, it’s that reverse engineering, like we learned in Grow the Show, where you figure out who your audience is and how you can serve them. And, and then really make something special and specific. rather than, you know, there’s, I was talking to somebody, my last [00:20:00]podcast guest, Christine Furler is doing the life coaching thing.
Um, and she started that before the pandemic, but that’s another area that seems to have exploded. Right. And
Adam Baruh: Mm hmm.
Derek Goodwin: so. So I think if you were a life coach and you just had a podcast called life coaching or something, you’re going to get drowned in that sea of life coaches. But if you have life coaching for people whose husband left them, you know, the more specific you can get, I have no idea.
Um, but so mine, I think when I was. Came up with this whole idea for the music mantras and mnemonics Jeremy got really excited He said because it’s so like specific and unique that no one else is really doing it and it you know It reflects my personality so we all have our little quirks and funny interests and I think the more you can drill down [00:21:00] into what makes you unique and Apply that to your podcast and find a specific audience.
And then, you know, once you have your, there’s that famous essay, the thousand true fans. If you can get a thousand true fans that pay you 10 a month, you know, you’re going to be doing great.
Adam Baruh: Love it. That’s yeah, that’s fantastic advice. Um, so thanks for sharing that. So as we kind of come to a conclusion here today, um, want to ask a couple of questions on the theme of discoveries. And the first question is, you know, what discoveries did you make about podcasting? You know, you have a long journey in podcasting, um, you know, from 2005 till now, and so, you know.
Just there’s been such an evolution, but like, what are some of the just overall discoveries just about podcasting in general, that, that you’ve kind of noticed in your experience.
Derek Goodwin: [00:22:00] Hmm. You stumped me. Um, let’s see. I’m just having a moment of stage fright, I think. Um, I feel like podcasting, I’ve been on a journey in these last five or so years of my life of just figuring out what branding and marketing and things really are. As a you know, I do photography. I do. Teach yoga and everything I do is kind of my own hustle and Just learning how [00:23:00] people market things successfully from You know the ideas of sales funnels to heroes journey for the customer things like this
Adam Baruh: Mm hmm.
Derek Goodwin: I listen to a lot of podcasts that teach about that like Seth Godin and akimbo Tim Ferriss’s stuff, so this world is transitioning so much to having a lot of people being their own kind of mini influencer or personality that has their own unique business, knowledge and wisdom is so important. And for me personally, it hasn’t come naturally. I’m kind of that classic artist that doesn’t know how to run a business person. So the discovery journey of. Trying to learn all that and integrate it into my offerings has been, you know, both a blessing [00:24:00] and the biggest challenge for me.
Adam Baruh: Yeah, that’s a great response. That’s a very insightful response. Um, and I think, you know, certainly it’s something that, you know, podcasters need to kind of think about in addition to just, you know, kind of showing up and doing these interviews. It’s like, you know, you. Despite what your purpose is, like if it’s to make money or to have, you know, to be doing this full time, like, you know, everybody gets in it with a, with a passion and a purpose.
And so like, if nothing else, to continue to feed that passion and purpose, like there is, you know, a desire and a need to kind of make sure you’re getting it out there so we can get. It listens to right, um, to hopefully make an impact and help people and resonate with people that are, you know, want to connect with that message and that content.
So last question, um, again on the theme of discoveries, what discoveries have you made about yourself through your podcasting experience?[00:25:00]
Derek Goodwin: the, the paradox of the pandemic that it was so terrible for some people and so wonderful for other people, um, that pause in life just gave me so much time to inflect and go deeper into my music and my writing and everything. So, um, And the podcasting was a tool because it allowed me to have my musical offerings, my storytelling, my…
It was also a way to connect with people online while we were isolated.
Adam Baruh: Mm hmm.
Derek Goodwin: Um, so I think… That the love you have to, I think, to be a successful podcaster, you really have to love doing it and maybe so much that you would do [00:26:00] it, even if there is no pile of money or fame at the end of it all. You know, I think that’s, what’s going to carry most people and probably to go back to your question about, um, the saturation in the market right now, when a trend hits, you know, a lot of people are going to jump on and if they’re just doing it because it’s the trend.
It’s probably not going to stick because it’s not, for most of us, unless we’re already a celebrity, it’s not super easy to build a podcast from the ground up. But if you love it and you can be consistent and just keep coming back, that’s what’s going to carry you forward.
Adam Baruh: Those are beautiful words to close on. So, let’s do so. Thank you so much for being here today and being my guest. It’s been a pleasure to get to know you here on the show, and thanks for your time today. It’s been great.
Derek Goodwin: You’re welcome. I’m looking forward to the launch of your show.
Adam Baruh: Thank you. Derek Goodwin.
Derek Goodwin: already launched by now.
Adam Baruh: As this releases, it’s launched, but awesome. Thank you so much, Derek. Derek Goodwin is an OG [00:27:00] podcaster having started his first show, Vegan Radio Podcast, in 2005. He went on to create the Warrior One podcast and today hosts the show Don’t Forget Yoga podcast, helping new yoga teachers absorb yogic wisdom with music, mantras, and mnemonics.
You can find out more about Derek on our website, www. eiquemediallc. com, or by clicking the links in this episode’s show notes. If you enjoy Beyond the Microphone, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you’re listening, as well as to our YouTube channel. You can find links to all of these in our episode show notes.
Thank you all for listening, and we’ll see you next time on Beyond the Microphone.
EIQ Media: Beyond the Microphone is produced and distributed by EIQ Media Group, LLC. Elevate your emotional IQ with podcasts and content focused on entrepreneurship, overcoming adversity, stories of emotional courage, women’s health, aging, and more.