BTM S1E25 Mike Cavaggioni
[00:00:00] Welcome to Beyond the Microphone, a podcast about podcasters and the stories of how their shows came together, grew, and what they discovered along the way. I’m your host, Adam Beru. So before we get into our interview today, I just got off another one, and there was a fascinating topic that came up, and I wanted to talk about it a little bit here before we interview Mike.

Adam Baruh: And, you know, as you’re, you know, getting into podcasting and you’re online, you’re researching, you know, How do I grow my podcast? How do I start a podcast? How do I, whatever, whatever it may be, you’re going to get all sorts of advice and websites telling you to do this, that, the other thing. I will tell you from my experience, the number one thing to be successful as a podcaster.

Are you guys ready for this? Patience. [00:01:00] Patience is going to be your number one friend. If you can identify how Just to, to find it and to, to remember it, to remember about it, because, you know, podcasting at some point when you become serious about it and you get into a pretty frequent cadence on it, whether you’re releasing weekly, daily, every two weeks, whatever it may be, there’s a business behind it.

Um, you know, you have. Researching and finding guests if you’re doing interviews. Um, you got setting up, you know, doing the research for the interview itself. Um, setting up a script or whatever you do. Um, there’s all the marketing stuff. You’re going to get all sorts of advice on all of the different facets.

But the number one thing that’s going to make you successful is patience. And the reason for that is your podcast is not going to go from 0 to 10, 000 downloads a month overnight. It’s just not, that’s not a reality. [00:02:00] I mean, you can Um, pay for advertising. You can, you know, if you’re lucky to go viral with some episode or whatever, that’s great, but that’s not the reality for most people.

Um, you know, the story for most people is getting into podcasting because you have a story to tell because there’s passion and purpose and a mission that you have to want to help people or make a difference or, you know, whatever it may be. There’s, there’s usually some really beautiful, you know, motivator inside of you that, that That is propelling you to enter the space and so you go into it with all this enthusiasm and energy and then at some point it does become a little bit of a grind because again, it is a business and it does involve work.

Um, because even if your mission is to just, Hey, I just want to get my story out there so I can help one person. Well, you want to get your story out there, so you better start to learn a thing or two about how to market your podcast, right? Most. [00:03:00] And this is a really unfortunate statistic, but it’s true.

This, um, term called podfade, which happens to so many podcasters, you get to about the one year mark, and you just, it’s really hard to keep going, you know, once you get to that one year mark, if you’ve made it there. And it’s a really unfortunate thing, and it doesn’t have to be the case, I mean. You know, at some point you do get into, you go from the passion and purpose when you launch to now you’re looking at your download numbers and getting stressed out and you’re getting anxious about them, right?

Patience. Have patience. It’ll come. You just gotta keep doing the work and you gotta show up and you gotta be consistent. Because, you know, something that um, one of our guests, Alex Sanfilippo, mentioned here in his episode was If you can get to the two year mark, that’s when really all that momentum that you’ve been building will start to come into fruition and you’ll really start to see your podcast blossom at that point, but two years is a long time.

So [00:04:00] have patience, continue doing the work that you’re doing. It is making a difference. And always remind yourself why you got into podcasting in the first place and keep that on the top of your priority list. So, with that, let’s go ahead and introduce our guest today. His name is Mike Cavagioni. He’s the host of the Average Joe Finances podcast where he and his guests discuss how to create passive income from real estate, investing, side hustles, and more.

So, Hugely relevant, um, when it comes to the podcasting space, his mission is to show people that financial independence is possible no matter their income level. I couldn’t agree more with that statement. Also, the average Joe finances podcast has a listen score of 43 and is ranked in the top one and a half percent.

So Mike, awesome stats on listen notes. So welcome to be on the microphone and well done with the average Joe finances podcast. How are you doing?

Mike Cavaggioni: Hey Adam, I’m doing great. Thank you for that awesome introduction and, and even the discussion you had before, [00:05:00] uh, before we even started. I mean, that was, that’s fantastic. I feel like you just described what I had to go through to, to get the success in my podcast and, uh, yeah, so actually that, that listen score and, uh, percentage actually just recently dropped down.

I used to be in the top 1%, but there’s been so many celebrities coming out with these shows and messing up all of these, uh, numbers for all of us. So, uh, yeah, Uh, indie podcasters. It’s just the ongoing battle we have to deal with. Right.

Adam Baruh: but we’re fighting the fight and we’re going to be patient. So yeah, as you mentioned it, like, you know, your story of how, you know, let’s take, let’s go all the way back. Like, you know, before you even were working in podcasting, like, what were you doing? I, I mean, I know a little bit cause I’ve read your bio, you know, being in the military.

Um, so I don’t know if you want to start there, take us as far back as you want to go, but ultimately kind of like what led into your. Concept of, hey, maybe I’m gonna, maybe I’d like to get into podcasting and ultimately launching your show.

Mike Cavaggioni: Yeah, absolutely. So it started [00:06:00] off, uh, you know, way back in the day, young little Michael Cavagioni, uh, grew up on Long Island, New York. And, uh, I wound up joining the Navy when I was 17 years old, had to have my parents signed for me, right? I turned 18 before I shipped out to bootcamp, but I left Long Island and I never moved back, uh, after that timeframe, right?

So I turned 18 years old. I was out on my own ever since then. And, you know, the Navy brought me all over the world, right? I was stationed in Virginia for 15 years, but I traveled all over the world. And finally, at my 15, uh, 16 year mark, the Navy said, Hey, we’re going to send you to Hawaii. And I was like, finally, thank goodness I’m getting off the East Coast.

And I came out to Hawaii, and when I got out here, I said, You know, I really need to figure something out, because I’m getting close to the end of my career. And I want to make sure that, uh, you know, I’m going to be set so that, uh, we don’t have to worry about money, especially if we want to stay in Hawaii, because we love it here. And started investing in real estate. I started [00:07:00] getting into financial independence, learning as much about it as I could. Uh, during this journey, I got myself from, I had about 40, 000 of credit card and personal loan debt, paid it all off, saved up 40, 000 for when we moved to Hawaii. And bought our home right and then we started investing and it was just a really wild journey.

So I started a blog talking about it like, hey, this is how I did it. This is how you can do it too. I started coaching some people helping them out and then a friend of mine who had recently started a podcast like not too long after I started my blog came up to me and said, hey, Mike, you know, I really think you should what you’re doing here with your blog is great, but I really think you’d reach more people.

And impact more people. If you started a podcast, he’s like, podcasting is really starting to blow up. It’s going to be huge. I really think. You would have a good one and I said, uh, I don’t know, man. I was like, I’m really busy with my job out here in the Navy. And it’s, it’s just, it’ll be really hard to put the time and effort into that.

He’s like, no, he’s like, even if you just do one a month, I said, oh, [00:08:00] okay. You yank my arm a little bit. Fine. So, but I said, I want to commit to one a week. So here I was, didn’t know a thing about podcasting. I did a little bit of research, bought a blue Yeti microphone and I had my laptop already. I said, I think I have everything I need.

And I started a podcast and, uh, next thing, you know, I’m like, this is a lot harder than I expected it. To be, and you know, the first couple episodes I was scrambling because I really didn’t have any content ready to go and I launched a show without having content ready to go, uh, highly 10 out of 10.

Don’t recommend doing that. Right? Uh, I didn’t know any better. So, um, here I was just struggling, uh, battling every week, trying to make sure I have an episode and I had it edited so it could be released on Sunday. So I want it to be consistent, right? And unfortunately, there were some days where I just wasn’t consistent.

So it, the episode would come out on a Monday or Tuesday. I just couldn’t finish it in time [00:09:00] and, uh, I got to the point where I was like, okay, I need to really focus on being as consistent as possible and I started time blocking specific parts of my week to do editing and to make sure I had everything done.

I started, uh. Bulk recording episodes with, and it’s like, started doing bulk interviews. I would spend my Saturdays almost all day Saturday doing four or five interviews. And I’m like, okay, cool. I’ve got, I’ve got a bunch of content now, right? I’m good to go. Well, now I got to edit all this stuff. And I’m like, this is kicking my butt.

And about six months into it, I was about 25 episodes in. And I was like, I don’t know if I could do this anymore. Like I’m really getting burnt out. And I was like, well, the podcast ain’t making money. I’m getting about 20 to 40 downloads, you know, a month. And I’m like, nobody’s really listening. And then I had somebody tell me like, Hey, think about this 20 to 40 people in a room.

Listening to you speak. That’s like you’re talking to a classroom and you got to think about it like that. I said, you know, I never really thought about it like that. [00:10:00] Maybe I’ll keep going and I started looking and trying to find a way to, uh, have somebody helped me with my editing and I found it, you know, and I started outsourcing my editing to a team and I was like, okay, I’ve got some of this time back now and I’m not coming home from work and telling my kids.

Sorry. I’ll see you in an hour after I finish editing and oops. Sorry. It’s bedtime. Good night. You know, and I was like, cool. I’m getting some of this time back. That’s great. And then I started focusing on sharing my podcast all over social media, taking some of these little clips that the team was making me and sending it out all over started building an email list.

And I said, okay, now I’m kind of learning the marketing side of this. And I’m starting to grow. Now I’m getting a couple hundred downloads a month. I’m starting to see this nice little Rise and downloads. This is fantastic And then it got to the point where I kind of peaked at about 000 downloads a month And if it fluctuates right I have I have big dips and I have big gains It just depends on on the content that i’m putting out Um, there’s there’s some [00:11:00] episodes that I do that just will not do as well as others uh, and then there’s some episodes that do like really phenomenal because i’ll bring on somebody that Has a big name in the industry.

Like when I interviewed Brandon Turner from bigger pockets, right. Um, that was, that was a huge episode for me. So it’s just finding that right rhythm and finding what worked for me. And that’s what I did. I, I, I said, you know what? I need to get to the point where all I’m doing is recording content and I don’t have to worry about it.

So I hired a VA and I said, Hey, I want you to grow with me. This is what we’re going to do. And, uh, you know, she started working with my editing team and eventually. Took over all the editing for my podcast and then eventually. Became my lead editor for a team that I built to help other podcasters. So it’s just been this huge growth that I’ve had.

My podcast just turned three years old last month, and it’s just been an awesome journey. And I went from nothing to. I got some affiliate sponsors to, I [00:12:00] got actual sponsors and then just today, like maybe two hours before I’m hopping on with you, I just had a call with a very big sponsor that sponsors very large podcasts and they are interested in sponsoring my show.

So I sent them all my stats and my data and everything and, and now we’re negotiating some stuff and I’m like, this is super amazing. And here I am at the three year mark still. Working hard to, to take it to that next level, but the momentum’s there. And once you get that momentum, it’s really hard to stop.

So, um, I really liked what you said, Adam, about the, the consistency and the patience. Patience is huge. If you want to have a successful podcast,

Adam Baruh: Yeah. And I think, um, and this kind of touches on a lot of like what it sounds like your experiences and it was mine to like a lot of kind of like experimentation and not being afraid to kind of like try stuff and Hey, if something doesn’t work, you know, maybe, you know, try something else. Um, you know, cause like something, I [00:13:00] think that, you know, we’ve had various conversations on the show with different guests about this concept of chasing perfection.

Um, cause you know, a lot of people that I speak to, you know, You know, they, they want to get into podcasting, but like when I asked them, it’s like, Oh, well, they’re still working on their concept and stuff. And, and, you know, time goes by. And, uh, you know, some people are just wired that way. Like they don’t want to launch into something new until it’s like kind of they’ve worked through and they’ve planned everything out and then, and then they’re ready to get into it.

But it sounds like your experience and my experience are both similar in that. We just got into it because we wanted to get into it. Maybe we didn’t have the

Mike Cavaggioni: from a fire

Adam Baruh: We had no structure, no, you know, consistency. We didn’t really know any better, like you said. Um, no plan really. I kind of wrote

Mike Cavaggioni: Adam, I, I do want to add, I, I thought I had structure. I built this whole podcast script that I thought I had to follow. [00:14:00] I had these set questions. And if you go back and you listen to some of my earlier episodes, and you’ll hear that I’m asking these guests, the same exact question, it sounds very robotic.

It’s so not personal at all. And I was like, Whoa, something’s got to change because this is. This is boring me as a host, and I don’t feel like I’m getting out of it what I should because as a podcast host, one of the things I’ve realized is you get to be a little bit selfish and ask the guests the questions you want to ask for the stuff you’re curious about.

And if it’s something that adds value to you, it’s going to add something of value to somebody like you, a. k. a. your, your listener avatar, the people that are listening to your show. So, for me, it was like, I’m, I’m going to be a little selfish about this, and I’m going to ask questions I want to ask, and, and that’s when I really started to see some great progression.

Adam Baruh: Yeah. And, you know, the other thing that you were touching on, certainly is, you know, what I describe, and I even mentioned it in my opening monologue, just this idea [00:15:00] of. You know, being in business as a podcaster, um, because I mean, you described your own burnout that you experienced and, uh, and I think it does take experience to, to learn and to realize like, you know, how to go about setting up a good structure so that you can avoid things like the burnout, but.

But certainly that’s something that I ran into because like, and I had a previous podcast before beyond to the microphone, I hosted one called the change and it was all driven from passion and purpose. Like, you know, myself, just some stuff I was going through personally. And, you know, combined with my role as the CEO of this it consulting company, I, I really wanted to make a difference talking about mental health and business and emotional intelligence and business and.

And so I was booking like authors and stuff like that to come on as guests and they were great. I mean, I, I loved all the conversations that I had, but the time, like I felt, especially when you’re interviewing an author, like there’s a level of [00:16:00] research that you want to put into it just so you can ask insightful questions and really truly be prepared.

So when it comes to interviewing an author, I would read one of their books at least. Right. And, uh. You know, read some great books, um, but in terms of also having a family, four kids, three companies that I run, um, other podcasts that I produce, I definitely started to feel the burnout and just kind of, I didn’t walk away from that podcast.

Like I kind of just stopped producing it, um, as I focused on this other project that I had going on, but. At some point I decided I didn’t want to go back to doing the change I wanted to, you know, talk to other podcasters. So the point I’m trying to make here and the advice I would give here is when I went about creating this podcast Beyond the Microphone, there was a lot of intentionality behind it.

Number one. I don’t have time to do a lot of like research and prep. Okay. So I wanted to just, and with the [00:17:00] change, kind of like what you were talking about is I would script out a lot because I mean, if you read a book and you know, you do, you’re doing a lot of research on your guests. Like there’s going to be a series of questions that, that you put together that are unique for that particular interview.

But you know, in terms of beyond the microphone, I mean, yes, I have some like questions I can, I can go back to, to kind of keep an arc going, but. I’m trying to make the conversations more organic. Number one, that saves me so much time outside of these interviews. I used to also do pre interviews with the change.

I don’t know if that’s something that you do, Mike, but, uh, I would screen, yeah, I would screen them and just, you know, try to get a sense for like what they were all about. So I could put together an episode topic that made sense. And I, you know, with beyond the microphone, I don’t do that. So there was a lot of intentionality with setting up this podcast.

Because I knew I wanted to do it weekly. So how am I going to set it up where it doesn’t really take a whole lot of my time? And we have great tools that we work with. [00:18:00] Descript is what we use for editing. Um,

Mike Cavaggioni: Oh, the script is great. My team uses it.

Adam Baruh: Yeah, it’s, and in terms of like collaborating, because, you know, I produce four podcasts, um, in addition to hosting, right?

So, I have other hosts that I have to collaborate with. Um, assistance, marketing people. And so what’s cool about Descript is we can all kind of be in there like doing each, each of our individual roles. Um, so anyway, you know, getting back to your experience, like, so now you’re, you’re in a groove. I mean, you’ve been doing this for three years.

You’re in a groove. What, what’s been your recipes for success in terms of how you went from getting that burnout kind of feeling. To where now you kind of it sounds like you have a system in place.

Mike Cavaggioni: Yeah. So, Adam, that that’s the most important piece right there, right? Is having a system put in place and just because I started outsourcing didn’t mean that it took care of all my [00:19:00] problems. Because now I had another problem. How do I systematize the outsourcing that I have that I don’t have to constantly be over their shoulders and making sure that they’re doing it the way I want them to do it.

And I started off using Trello boards, right? I would build everything in the Trello board and I would say, okay, I built the structure out. This is how I want things done. I would put my Google drive link there and say, okay, here’s, you know, the different tasks for each episode. Here’s the Google drive link to pull the files and then cool.

I’m done with this. And then what I realized I was doing is I was just creating more work for myself, like busy work trying to say, Hey, this is what I want. And I said, no. I’m Let me just build a relationship with these guys and, and tell them exactly what I want so that, you know, we, we keep working together work through the kinks.

It’s a lot more work up front, but eventually got to the point where I was able to save so much time because they knew what I wanted. Right? We built a really good rapport. And I think relationships is the other piece of that puzzle that helped me take the podcast to the next [00:20:00] level. Because I started building the relationships with the right people and.

Yeah. So my team, they know what I want. They know, you know, I record my podcast, I upload it. They know, you know, if in the middle of recording, I say, Hey, cut out the last 20 seconds. Cause you know, me, you know, the I record on zoom, right? Hey, it froze up a little bit. I’m going to re ask this question. Right.

And I could do that. And I know that they’re going to go pull that out because they go through every single piece of the transcript of my pod, my podcast. Right. So, um, that, that is one of those things that for me, it just, it makes it. Unique and it saves me time because I don’t have to sit here and give instructions.

I can just say in the recording. Hey, I need you to do a B C or D and they’ll they’ll just take care of it. Right? And you know, the other the other piece of it too. Like I said, that relationship piece is when it came to growing my podcast. It was about who I brought on the podcast as well. Right. I started building these relationships with some big real estate investors, with some people in the niche [00:21:00] that I’m interested in.

Right. And I started focusing on growing my business with the podcast, growing my network with the podcast. And one of the things I did is I started keeping in touch with all the people that came on my show as a guest. And, you know, I started building an email list with them as well, and I stay in touch with them because they are now part of my network.

Right. And, you know, if they have a podcast, I’ll, I’ll recommend people to them as a guest, like other people that I’ve had on my show, and we just keep the relationship going. And I think that’s an important thing is not just having someone in your network, but actually having a relationship with them, uh, and not being just an acquaintance.


Adam Baruh: Yeah

Mike Cavaggioni: the other thing too, and I’ll add this, you know, these little devices here. Yeah. These phones, right? These are great CRM devices when you save a contact, at least on the iPhone, there’s a spot in there for notes. You could put any websites, anything like that. So people that I meet at conferences and things like that, I’ll put their contact info in.

I’ll save notes on them. And I know exactly what I’m [00:22:00] talking to this individual about. So, and guess what? If, if I’m like, Hey, who was I talking to about, you know, why podcasting is great to build your network. I can go in and do a search. And it’ll pull up out of my contacts because it’s in the notes. And I’m like, Oh, that’s the person who I was talking to.

Right. That’s huge. And it, and it goes back to show that you’re actually putting a vested interest into that relationship. So when they have something that’s coming up and they’re thinking about, Hey, I need a partner for like this deal, or, Hey, I want to start a podcast. And who’s that guy that I was talking to?

Oh yeah, Mike. He’s the, he’s the one who always keeps in touch with me and, you know, lets me know what’s going on. So you, you build a relationship and people remember you, right? The other thing I did as well. Is I would go be a guest on other podcasts. It’s another selfish thing you get to do, right? When you start building up and, and you build your brand a little bit bigger, you get to get on more shows, right?

And by going on more shows, what are you doing? You’re expanding your brand because everybody goes on a podcast to promote themselves. Like, let’s be real here, right? You know, I bring people on [00:23:00] my show. They’re coming on my show because they want to talk about what they do. And how they can help other people.

Right. And I want to share their story because it’s going to help other people in my particular, you know, my, my listener avatar. And, uh, so it’s, it’s like this unique relationship that you have between podcast host and podcast podcast guest. So being a guest on a show is another piece of growing that network and growing that business.

And if you have a business. And your podcast is related to it. Oh, my goodness. You can monetize very early. You can start bringing people in. Like I was doing financial coaching and I’m a real estate agent out here in Hawaii. And guess what? I got clients for both from people listening to my podcast. They said, Hey.

You’re that guy. You’re the average Joe finances guy. And people come up to me at real estate meetups and say that I’m like, yeah, that’s me. Hey, I’m interested in a financial coaching or Hey, I want to buy a home out here in Hawaii. I’m like, I can help you. Right. Um, and the other thing too, is the referrals I get out of other states.

So if I know somebody that’s trying to buy a house in another state, I refer them to another agent. [00:24:00] Guess what? I get, I get a commission check for that too. Um, so. I’ve been able to take advantage of the podcast to make it a lucrative source of income for me, as well as a passion project that I just love to do. I know it’s long winded, but

Adam Baruh: no you said a bunch of good things I was taking notes along the way let’s let’s start with this question because um VAs like virtual assistants I’ve not worked with them As of yet, but I want to, I don’t know how to go about it. Like number one, where do you find a good VA that you can trust and that you can train?

I know a lot of them are kind of, you know, in other parts of the world. And so like, what’s been your experience like finding, you know, training the right person, time zone difference, maybe some language barriers, like any advice you can give us on just getting started with VAs.

Mike Cavaggioni: Yeah, absolutely. I’m going to give you guys all the industry secrets right now. So get a pen and paper. Uh, [00:25:00] so I learned the hard way to put the VA side because, you know, uh, As you start building up and your brand starts getting more known, you get people that will just randomly message you, uh, you know, for, Hey, I’m a VA and I do a, b, c, or d, I can help you with your podcast and this and that.

And I usually just ignore those. Well, one day I got a pitch from a VA out of the Philippines and she sent me this, this pitch that was so well written and just so well put together and exactly what I wanted. Assistance with and I said, huh, you know what? Let me give this person a shot and I hired them and it was a mistake, right?

Because it was it was it was a nightmare, right? I was like, hey, this is what I need to do Like I’m not trying to pay 40 hours a week. Like this is a part time thing, right? So these are the tasks that I need done, you know, I’m talking like two to four hours a week, right? Maybe even one to two and they were like, oh, well, can you prepay and this and that sounds like prepay and all this I’m like What is it?

I’m like, I’m like losing all [00:26:00] this money. I’m like, no, no, no. Like this, this is over. And I reached out to some other podcasters and real estate investors in the industry that I knew. And I said, Hey, I know you guys use VAs. What’s the secret sauce here? Like, how did you find a good VA? And they told me something that it made me smack myself in the head and said, why didn’t I do this in the first place?

Uh, because it was simple. They said, go to upwork. com. Create the job that you want somebody to do exactly every little task that you want them to do, put it out there, see who applies, interview them. I said, that’s simple enough. So I was like, okay, what are the things that I want them to do? I start typing out this whole job description.

I even go back to that message that that first VA sent me. And I’m like, yeah, some of that to throw this all in there. And I say, I’m looking for somebody that’s going to work for me one to two to maybe four hours a week. Uh, I want to pay between 3 to 8 an hour. Like that was the budget I put in there and here’s the different tasks.

And, [00:27:00] and by the way, I want you to grow with me. So as, as I expand and grow this business, I want you to grow with me as well. So I get in three hours, I get 24 applicants, right? I narrow it down to five. I really scrutinize those five profiles. I take one more out and I say, okay, I’m going to interview these four people.

I interviewed all four of them. And the third person who I interviewed is actually who I went back to and said, Hey, you’re the person I want for this job. Right? I hired that individual. We did everything through Upwork. And after about a year, I said, Hey, I want to pull you off Upwork and I want to pay you salary because Upwork is taking 20 percent of your, you know, what I’m paying you as I just want to pay you a straight up salary.

And here’s the, here’s what we’re expanding to. And here’s the different tasks we’re going to do. And she was like, okay, that’s great. Let’s go. And again, we continued to grow and grow and grow. And then she’s actually the one that helped that helped me. Get rid of my old editing team to start my podcast editing business.

And now she’s my lead editor and she is crushing it for me, [00:28:00] Adam. So, uh, she really helped me take everything to the next level. So finding a good VA can really, really, really help you expand. And she’s out of the Philippines, right? And one of the beautiful things, and one of the reasons why I like hiring V is out of the Philippines is it’s mandatory for them to learn English in school.

It is the first language they have to learn besides their own, right? Um, Most of them know five languages, uh, especially if they’re a VA, like they really, they’re highly educated. Um, they’re, it’s not like they’re coming to you and they’re just like, oh yeah, I can do these tasks. No, they know what they’re doing.

Right. Uh, the one who I hired specifically knows how to. Uh, edit videos, knows how to do audio engineering. She’s fantastic. I give her all the software and stuff that she needs. Like, you know, I’ll go pay for descript. I’ll pay for the seats. Um, I’ll pay for final cut, whatever. Right. And, and she’ll take care of it from there.

And then I said, Hey, as we’re growing, we need more VAs like. This is going to become overwhelming as we [00:29:00] take on more clients. And she’s like, yeah, she’s like, we, she’s like, I’m already feeling a little overwhelmed. Uh, she’s like, I already had to like get rid of the other stuff I was doing to work for you full time.

I said, okay, that’s a good problem for me because that means I get you the whole time now. Uh, so I said, Hey, why don’t you go out to some of the, the, the. The, uh, shared workspaces out there and start recruiting some VAs for, for our business and start training them up. And she’s like, yeah, no problem. I’ll do that.

So we get on a zoom call about once a month and discuss these things. And that’s one of the zoom calls we had. So she goes out and she finds a couple more VAs and she starts training them up. And now we got this whole team ready to go. And as the work becomes too much and she has to outsource to them, she outsources to them and she starts doing more of a QA role.

She’ll make sure all the stuff is good before it gets the final product gets sent to me. Right. Um, so that’s one of the things it’s, it saved me so much time. So, uh, long story short, if you want to find a good VA, create the job, [00:30:00] post it, let them come to you and then actually intervene, treat them like an employee.

Right. And let them come to you and you interview them and you find the right one. I know other people that have done this method and it’s taken them a couple of tries to find the right one. I was super lucky to get mine on the first try doing it this way. Uh, not everyone’s going to experience that.

Right. If you do it this way, it won’t take you as long to find the right fit versus, you know, just going out there and listening to every pitch that gets sent to you or searching for somebody and looking at their profiles and saying, Oh yeah, they do what I want, you know, and so I’m going to, I’m going to ask if I could hire them.

No, let them come to you. Let them put in that effort to show that they want to be a part of your team.

Adam Baruh: that’s fantastic. Thanks for for offering that insight because I know a number of people are definitely going to be, um, interested in that. So as we come to a close today, um, I want to ask a couple of questions on the theme of discoveries. So the first is about podcasting. [00:31:00] Um, you know, as you’ve kind of evolved as a podcaster, what are some of the high level discoveries that maybe surprised you just, you know, working within the podcasting space?


Mike Cavaggioni: the biggest thing is. When I hit that burnout period six months into it, you know, it, it made me start thinking about how I treat my real estate investing and I’m like, I should treat my podcast the same way I should treat it as a business. And what do I do when I have a problem and it’s something I can’t solve?

I find the right person to help me solve it. Right. It’s who not how right. And that’s when I was like, it was like an epiphany. It’s like the light bulb went off above my head. And I said. I need to outsource my editing and get my time back to focus on the tasks that I do better, right? Because I, if I sit here and do it myself.

Yes, I’ll get it right, but it takes me so long because I’m not a professional when it comes to that. I need to hire the right person that knows how to do this, that they could do what, what takes me two hours to do. They could [00:32:00] get it done in 30 minutes, you know? So I said, okay, that’s what I needed to do.

So that, that was like an epiphany for me, outsourced to the right people. Uh, on top of that, I would also say another thing that I discovered is, you know, the other piece that I also talked about is don’t. Just have your own podcast, go out there and be a guest on other shows and talk about your podcast, right?

And let other people know what you’re all about. You might be surprised how many people decide to come check out your show just because you talked about it on another show.

Adam Baruh: 100 percent agree with that statement. Like definitely get out and do guest spots as much as you have time to do. Um, number one, it’s free. People shouldn’t be charging you to have you come on to guest on their show and it’s free marketing for you and free branding for you. And really the only cost is, is the time involved.

And for the most part, I find them to be pretty fun as well, actually. You know, you just kind of show [00:33:00] up and, and, you know, when you go onto the right ones, it’s just kind of a fun, engaging conversation. So definitely recommend doing guest spots. So final question, again, on the theme of discoveries in your podcasting experience.

Now having, having done this for three years, what are some discoveries that you made about yourself personally that surprised you in podcasting?

Mike Cavaggioni: Oh, okay. That’s a great question. Uh, so Adam, I would, I would say one of the things I discovered about myself is the, some of the things that I experienced in the Navy, some of the training that I’ve had. I had to put into place when it came to my podcast and the biggest thing would be, I had to treat my podcast.

Like I said earlier as a business, but also be disciplined about it. Right? When I say be consistent, I mean, be consistent. Right? So I switched my podcast from 1 episode a week to 2 episodes a week. And I said, okay. I know what days they’re going to come [00:34:00] out every Sunday and every Wednesday. And I chose those days for a reason.

And that’s the other piece about it too, is, you know, with that discipline comes with your actual mission. What is the mission of your podcast? Who are you trying to talk to? Right? Find your avatar. And make sure you’re speaking to them, have that discipline to keep your podcasts going in the direction that your listeners will stick around, right?

Because you don’t want to just have a, you know, a listener or an active listener. You want to create a raving fan, right? You want to create somebody. That says, I will not miss an episode of the average Joe finances podcast, because man, this guy gets these guests on and he asked them these awesome questions that I can relate to.

And, and it adds value to my life, right? So if you can make it, you know, professional. But also personal and interpersonal for the people that are listening. That is something that I, that I figured out that actually helped me start to grow. And that [00:35:00] again, it’s the consistency and it’s the discipline that’s going to help you get there.

Adam Baruh: Well, it’s all been great advice, really insightful, um, just hearing about your journey and what you’ve been able to achieve in three years is definitely inspirational for me as a podcaster. And I know for people that are listening. So Mike, thank you so much for coming on to be on the microphone today.

Mike Cavaggioni: Adam, it was my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

Adam Baruh: You got it. Mike Cavagioni is a veteran and retired U. S. Navy officer having served for 20 years. He is a licensed real realtor associate, financial coach, real estate investor, and podcast host. Near the end of his Navy career, he shifted his focus to financial independence and entrepreneurship. Mike started investing in real estate and working his other side hustles to create passive income and become financially independent by age 38.

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com to learn more. Thank you all for listening and we’ll see you next time on beyond the microphone.

EIQ Media: Beyond the Microphone is produced and distributed by EIQ Media Group, LLC. Elevate your emotional IQ with podcasts and content focused on entrepreneurship, overcoming adversity, stories of emotional courage, women’s health, aging, and more.