Dave Dravecky 0:03
So as I was laying there, obviously I was trying to regroup, get my faculties back, I almost went into shock, because it was holding my breath from the intensity of the pain. And it once I was able to breathe, you know, obviously this thing is going on in my mind and what oh my god, there’s something bigger going on the baseball in this, in this this whole story. There’s something much bigger going on. I don’t know what it is, but something’s going on.
Kristin Taylor 0:41
It’s not what you do that matters. It’s who you are. These words come directly from our guests today – Dave Dravecky. We are truly blessed to have Dave with us today. Upon sharing our good fortune with my brothers and my husband, all huge diehard baseball fans and of the generation that marveled that Dave and his playing days, they could not believe that it was I and not vai who got to meet him. Sure, I may not live and breathe baseball but my life’s work and the foundation of How I Made It Through is to elevate extraordinary stories of courage and perseverance, and to normalize the very human experience of living in the darkness, sometimes in despair, and finding one’s way back to the light. These are the stories that feed our souls. These other survival guides that nurture hope, resilience and connection for all of us because at one time or another, we are all fighting some sort of personal battle. And it is often in that fight, while in the making it through part, that we connect to a greater mission and truthand that our lives and our souls become more deeply and finely carved and etched in the direction of our purpose. As I sat down to write about Dave, to introduce and frame his story, I quickly realized that no one can represent a story better than the person that story belongs to. And so with that, and in an effort to catch our listeners up to speed about exactly who they are Becky is if they don’t already know. I am borrowing directly from his very own words. He writes: “My story is one of finding hope, courage and perseverance in the midst of dark and overwhelming uncertainty. In 1988, I was at the top of my game and my life. Not only did I have a wonderful family, but I was also at the peak of my career, playing the game of my childhood dreams. My opening day victory over the Dodgers was overshadowed later, that fall by the discovery of cancer and the removal of half of the deltoid muscle in my pitching arm. After battling cancer in my pitching arm, I came back a year later to defy the odds and pitch once again in the major leagues. Despite being told by my doctors short of a miracle you’ll never pitch again. I pitched a four three win for the San Francisco Giants that day. Sadly, my comeback was short lived. Five days later, I threw quote, the pitch deck could be heard round the world. My arm is split into as I tumbled to the ground, my mind filled with doubt and fear. After my comeback, and fall from the mound, the cancer returned yet again. The arm refused to get better. So I decided to retire from my dream the game of baseball in November of 1989. Finally, the arm along with my shoulder blade, and the left side of my collarbone had to be amputated for fear that cancer would spread and take my life. Little did I know that the loss of my childhood dream would become a platform to share hope with the suffering around the world.” Dave, welcome to how I made it through.
Dave Dravecky 4:14
Thank you so much, Kristen, it’s a pleasure to be with you and talk about my story. So wonderful to have you. So what I’d like to do is start from the beginning going back to your childhood. And in particular, what made you fall in love with baseball?
You know, I think I think a lot of it had to do with growing up with parents that allowed me to pursue my dream instead of living their dreams through me. And and I think that was really the beginning of this boyhood love for sports in general. I played basketball, I played football, I ran track and I play baseball. And so I just I developed this love early on in my life, and a lot of it was just out of that that environment that was created for me to love. Because there was no stress to be anything but me. And and I love that. And so I had the unique privilege of having the support of my parents who were my cheerleaders in pursuing this dream to be hopefully one day Sandy Koufax or Vida Blue, who were my two heroes growing up as a kid.
Kristin Taylor 5:29
Yeah, that’s so wonderful. So you always knew that that was what you were aiming for, is what I’m hearing is that true?
Dave Dravecky 5:36
I don’t know if I always knew as a kid, you know, you just love playing sports. And so I just wanted to be active playing sports, to be honest with you. I also really enjoyed working outside. So during my, you know, high school years, I worked in landscaping. And I always thought if baseball didn’t work, I pursued landscaping and, and maybe get a degree in horticulture and, and maybe landscape design and do that work because I loved working with my hands outside. And I love being out under the stars under the sun, working out in the dirt. And and and that was another joy of mine. So as I was growing up, obviously, I loved baseball, and I wanted to be like Sandy Koufax and Vida Blue. Those were the guys I watched on TV when I was a kid. But I really never came to a point of believing that I could make it until my junior year in college. And all of a sudden, people were starting to watch me, people were starting to follow me from the professional ranks. And, and that’s really when it kind of connected this love that I have could potentially become seeing a dream become reality. And, and so but but it took a while to get there. I was a late bloomer. You know, I didn’t mature until I got into college, I was 155 pounds wet 5’1″ as a senior in high school, and beyond my senior year in high school in my freshman year in college, I grew three inches and I put on 30 pounds.
Kristin Taylor 7:21
Holy cow, holy cow, you were a late bloomer.
Dave Dravecky 7:24
Yeah. And so I was just telling a friend the other day that I remember my mom, in the summer of my senior year to my freshman year in college, I remember the first day I went to work for the landscaping company that I came back and I told my mom, gosh, you know, I appreciate you doing my lunch for me, but I’m starving. You know, you got to put more food in there. And so what she said, Well, what would you like? And I said, Well, you know, Mom, if you could make me five sandwiches, I think that would hold me over. And you know, being Italian, I loved Italian bread. And so she would slice up literally three quarters of a loaf of bread. And she would make me five, now get this Kristen five, tomato and mayonnaise sandwich.
Kristin Taylor 8:09
But that’s what you like to get guy knows what he likes his teenage son. So I can relate to that. Like, are you really going to eat more? I really have another lunch.
Dave Dravecky 8:22
So So I mean, that’s, you know, that was a big part of,you know, just seeing this dream come true is watching my skills develop and then starting to get to that place where it was a possibility?
Kristin Taylor 8:34
Yeah, so that’s a perfect segue into where I was hoping you would go is the college years and then into the minor leagues. You’re recognizing that those dreams may be realized, can you take us to that time in your life event?
Dave Dravecky 8:48
You know, my junior year, I was seven and one. And I had a 0.88 Earned Run Average going into the college tournaments. So we got invited to the tournament’s for the first time in the school’s history at Youngstown State University. So just real quickly, a brief background on that. Nobody out of high school recruited me to play for them. So I was a walk on at Youngstown State University. And now we were in I was in my junior year. We we had had a really good season, got invited into postseason play with the college tournament, and I was to be the opening pitcher in the tournament against Wright State University. Long story short, we were defeated 26 to one and I made I made it through two and a third innings. And I gave up eight or and runs nine total. And with every run that crossed home plate, Wright State University was reminding me of what my era was going up to. And so needless to say it was extremely humbling experience. You know, I just felt horrible I had pitched in front of probably 25 scouts around professional baseball. And nobody came up to me afterwards and talk to me about, you know, whether or not I was going to be selected in the draft that was just around the corner. And prior to that game, people were saying I was going to go in the top 10 rounds. So it was devastating, is devastating. My fourth year, at buaya, shoe went out and decided that I was just going to, you know, go out and play and have fun, and not worry about whether or not I get drafted, just enjoy the season. I think what I did the year before was I put too much pressure on myself, I had to be perfect in front of those scouts. And it ended up putting on so much pressure that I really miss the enjoyment of what I was actually doing playing baseball. And so the next year, I decided to change up my perspective, go out and have fun, and let just let the chips fall where they may. And and that’s that year, I was three in two. So I’m in it and have a spectacular year. But I pitched one good game in front of two scouts, one from the Dodgers one from the pirates, and ended up being selected in the 21st round by the Pittsburgh Pirates. And that was the beginning of seeing the first leg of my dream actually become a reality. Now I was a professional baseball player, the thing that I dreamed about as a little boy has now come true. And I’m in the Pittsburgh pirate organization, which is only an hour and 15 minutes from Youngstown, Ohio. So to be that close to, you know, my hometown, playing with Pittsburgh was was just really special. Now the challenge was I’m in the minor league system. And I need to work my way through the minor leagues to get to the big leagues. Or in the minor leagues, were a blast, you know, looking back, I think there’s something that I’ve taken from so many different seasons in my life in our life as a couple. Because after that first season of minor league baseball, I came back and Mary Jan, and we began the journey together. You know, oftentimes I speak to this, and it revolves around the fact that, you know, in so many marriages, I see two different paths. You know, and, and there’s never really this intersection of those paths. And, and for Jana and I, it wasn’t just me living this dream, it was now a dream that I shared with her. It was our dream. Beautiful. And and so as you know, as we moved forward, we realized we had so little, I mean, they were paying me $500 A month in the first year, I think I made $650, the second year, and Jan was she had an associate degree in accounting. So she was working for an accounting firm, making five times what I was making and supporting us. But what we realized during that time was we actually were very wealthy, having very little you know, we were blooming rich, and because we had each other because we had the couples that were on these teams that we would, you know, engage with in community, it brought us closer together, we shared things, because we couldn’t individually afford stuff. But collectively, you know, we can put together a really nice meal with the other couples that are participating. You know, if you’re by yourself, it’s it’s Kraft macaroni and cheese and maybe some hotdogs with your friends, you know, you get a salad mix in, you know, make some is going to bring some potato oops, you know when those simple things in life, and they meant a lot to us back then. Yeah, so the minor leagues for us. Were a lot of fun.
Kristin Taylor 13:46
Oh, wonderful. I can hear that. I love that you felt rich, you know, because it’s redefining what does it mean to be rich and I’m hearing community friendship, this beautiful partnership. I want to ask two questions, and I’ll just lay them out there. One is about when you look back to that time. I’m hearing the richness I’m also hearing like the the wisdom of you initially put so much pressure on yourself. And it really impacted your performance. And when you started to have fun. That’s when you started to reengage and it really made a difference in terms of how you performed. The first question is when you look back at that chapter in your life, what do you have most compassion for in terms of the things that you were struggling with those junctures?
Dave Dravecky 14:33
You know, I think the thing that the thing that I struggled with the most and the thing that I’ve struggled with up until about 10 years ago revolves around performance. Performance to please others. And, you know, my dad taught me some very simple lessons in life that over the years I’ve gone back to because it means so much you know, the stress performing to please, always comes with failure. You can never be perfect. And yet, when I look back on that period of time, I have to be honest with you, when you use the word compassion, there’s a sense of compassion that I have in regards to that season of life. Because it taught so much. It took a while to actually grab the nugget of wisdom that was in it. But I’m really grateful for it. My dad said, you know, Dave, I don’t care what it is you do. He said, I don’t care how much you make. So the most important thing is to work as hard as you can to be the best at whatever it is you can do be the best version of yourself. But he said, even more important than that, have fun doing it. And so, so periodically throughout the years, that’s been a mantra for me. But I’ve discovered that even in the midst of some of the struggles with performing to please others, there was a genuine love for the game. There was this wonderful experience, as a little league boy, in a man’s body, getting paid to play the game that he loves so much. And, and there’s elements, when I look back on that season in my life, the thing that is so wonderful, is that, for what or whatever reason, God has allowed me to experience life in a very unique way. Almost as though I were a little child. Just enjoying what I was doing. And, and you know, I’m so grateful for that. Did I do it all the time? No. Did the performance to please get in the way? Yes. Did it sometimes robbed me of those experiences a little boy experiencing? You know, the joys of being a baseball player? Sure did. You know, I mean, those are the those are the things of life that ebb and flow. But in the midst of all of it, I think I’m extremely grateful, that that there are nuggets of wisdom in all of that, that I’ve been able to hold on to, that have been able to apply to my life now. So much of life is about enjoying it to the full. And experiencing it in a way even in the midst of some of the most difficult of circumstances where you’re not robbed of the beauty of the experience that you’re going through. And so, so yeah, man, I was just a little kid played a big kids game, as a big kid. And some people liked it, and others didn’t, because he didn’t think I was professional. But to be honest with you, I don’t care if I was professional or not. I was playing a kids game. I was gonna enjoy it like a kid.
Kristin Taylor 18:13
A connection to joy. And I’m gonna ask that question I actually hadn’t prepared. But as we were preparing for this interview, and we heard your wife in the background and having just recently read come back. Just feel like I want to pay homage for her because it’s so clear and reading the book, and talking with you right now. What a amazing relationship you and she have. And what an amazing woman she had is an was. Tell me what she and this is the biggest question. You don’t have to answer all of it. So maybe just in that chapter. What was she teaching you in that chapter that you’re grateful for?
Oh, I know exactly what story to go to to share with you. It just gotten called up to the big leagues. I was I was traded from Pittsburgh, over to San Diego. I had had a wonderful year in Amarillo, Texas. I was 15 and five. It was there that I had a spiritual awakening. My wife and I both were challenged to read the Bible and discover who we were in relationship to God, we entered into this beautiful journey with Jesus. And now all of a sudden it’s 1982. I’m in Hawaii, things are going really well. I don’t know if I’m going to get called up or not, but the phone rings. And they’re telling me I’m going to the big leagues today at two days after my daughter’s born. And I’m like, Oh my gosh, this is so good. This is absolutely amazing. You can’t have a better three or four days than what I’ve just experienced. My daughter’s born My little princess comes into the world. And now I’m a big leaguer. You know this is just over the top. I get to I get to the big leagues. The first two weeks. I’m throwing 55 foot fastballs it’s 60 feet six inches to home plate from the pitcher’s mound. I can’t I can’t throw a strike to save my life and everybody that comes to the plate looks like Babe Ruth. And we’re in Los Angeles. I mean, I’m literally in the bullpen. And I’m big. I’m sitting there. And I’m just saying, God, if the phone rings, please don’t let them call my name. I am so scared. Yeah, we’re in Los Angeles. I come home after a game. We’re at the hotel at the Biltmore. I walk in the door. And Jan stops me and looks at me and said, Babe, what is going on? We’re not talking. You’re losing weight. You’re not yourself what is wrong. And Kristin, for the first time as an athlete, amateur professional. I said to my wife, I am scared to death. I don’t think I can do this. And she looked at me. And she said, Well, you know, I didn’t marry you, because you were going to become a major league baseball player. If you remember, when you pitched at Youngstown State University, I would sit in the stands or read a book I didn’t even watch, you don’t really care about this baseball. She says, you know, the other thing is, the San Diego Padres brought you up here, because they like you. So maybe, just maybe what you should do is go out there and be the best version of you. And babe, if that doesn’t work, it’s okay. I’ll still love you. And if they send us back down, away, it’s not a bad place to go. It’s just makes so much sense. You know, out of the mouth of my wife, my coach couldn’t even tell me that. And so I looked at her and I said, Gosh, come right. They called me up. Because they liked me. They didn’t call me up because they wanted the next Sandy colefax called him because they wanted Dave Dravecky to be Dave Dravecky. Yeah. And so in that moment, in that moment, I realized something really important that all too often in our culture, is why couples struggle so much. There’s, there’s something beyond the person that drives them in the relationship. And oftentimes, it’s about what I get from it, instead of what I’m able to give to it. And my wife saw beyond what she could get, because it didn’t matter to her. What she wanted to do was give something to me, that would help me to be freed up to be the best version of myself, my wife, as long as I have known her has always been about blessing others, about coming alongside others and helping them she’s got more mercy in her pinky than I have in my entire body. And in this moment, she revealed that this isn’t about me and what I desire out of this relationship with my husband, being a professional baseball player, this is about him, and helping him to be who I believe he is. I just need to help him be freed up from whatever it is that’s keeping him from getting there. And when I expose the fear, she diffused the fear immediately by saying, I don’t care about baseball. I didn’t marry you for that. I married you for you.
What a gift. What a generous, loving, compassionate thing to do to provide that perspective and know that she unconditionally loved you and saw you. You are not your fear. Yeah. That’s beautiful.
Dave Dravecky 24:15
I’ve had to experience that many, many times since then from her, because all too often identify myself with my fear.
Kristin Taylor 24:24
I think so many of us do. And I think that’s why it’s so important for you to share a story like that. I think so many of us do. Really appreciate that. And I appreciate that. She was able to poke a hole in it and put it in its proper perspective because we can bind your identity with the emotions we feel rather than recognizing it’s just just passing emotion. It’s not who you are. It’s not what matters. So I want to move the story forward because there’s so much of the story in so many lessons. So you’re in the Major League. You’re in the major league and you start feeling this lump on your arm. Can you take us there? Because what I remember in reading the book is he felt it for a while and kind of dismissed it even the team doctor dismissed it and took a while for you to go in and get it looked at.
Dave Dravecky 25:18
Yep, initially, it was the winter of 1987, right after the playoffs against the St. Louis Cardinals, I had pitched the two best games of my career through a two hit Shut up, and Game Two, and we lost one to nothing in game six. So I was riding high. I was feeling really good about 1988. But in the offseason, I noticed a pea sized lump that was halfway between the shoulder and the elbow. And, and so I called the doctors in San Francisco, we were living in San Diego at the time, because we had just been traded that previous July to the Giants and we still had a home in San Diego, we hadn’t made the transition up to San Francisco yet. So I called and asked for permission to see the team doctor for the San Diego Padres. And I went in and I had an MRI. And speaking of which, that’s where I realized that I’m very familiar with anxiety and panic attacks. Being in an MRI machine, it’s I couldn’t do it, I just had to have one. It’s all it’s they’re awful. I don’t even do them anymore, I just tell them, please get me in an open MRI scan. And then if the Open MRI isn’t going to work as well, and they’re still pushing MRI, I’ll say do a do a CT scan with Boreum or whatever you want to use to light up my body, I don’t really care. But I refuse to get in there unless you can put me out.
Kristin Taylor 26:47
I’m so with you. It is like a torture chamber and just an invitation for a panic attack, I so get it.
Dave Dravecky 26:53
So I go into the MRI. And, and they’re doing the left side of my arm. And they can’t see anything. So they pull me out there. So we’re gonna put you in and do the other side. And I’m like, wait a minute, you just put me in there for an hour. And now you’re gonna put me in for another hour do the other side. So you can have a comparison to see if there’s anything that’s different. Well, I went through that. And the reality was that they couldn’t see anything different. But you could still and they could feel it and I could feel it. So they said, Well, you know, we’re just gonna have to watch it and see what happens. Well, as the season progressed, and I went out and beat the Dodgers on opening day, and then continued to pitch, I started having arm problems, totally unrelated to the lump that was in my arm. I had a partially torn bicep tendon. So I had to go in for surgery to repair that. And because I wasn’t able to recover, and get back to pitching, there was atrophy. From the lack of post surgery, just the lack of being able to get strong and get back into the groove and come back and pitch. And so part of the exposed mass was due to atrophy. But there was no question at that point. It was growing. And so it was then that we we finally came to the conclusion, look, there’s got to be something else going on in here other than just atrophy, and this was a mass. And so what they actually thought, Kristen was that I have blockers bruise. And you know, when that happens in football, people can get hit really hard tear muscle fiber at the point of impact. And then that muscle fiber can calcify and harden. And it’s called blockers bruise. Well, they thought there was a possibility that that could have happened to me with throwing a baseball so much during muscle fiber.
Kristin Taylor 28:53
Dave Dravecky 28:54
So they scheduled for me to have an MRI and went in at the Cleveland Clinic because by then, we had now moved from San Diego to Ohio. And we were going to settle down and plant roots in Ohio and and when we retired, settle down with family there. And it was during that time that I had the MRI and we were at the Cleveland Clinic and we were in the waiting room waiting for the doctors to come to tell us what they just saw on the MRI. And as we were waiting in the waiting room, the doctor stopped outside the door prior to coming in and the door happened to be cracked a little bit. So we heard the conversation. And they mentioned cancer. And they were discussing how they were going to go about telling us and in those brief seconds I looked at Jan and I just said babe, I don’t know what to do, but we need to pray. And you know, and so I just said a simple prayer that went something like this God, I have no idea what we’re about to face, but whatever it is, please give us the strength to endure. That’s all I ask give us the strength to endure this. They came in. And the doctor looked at me and said, Dave, you have cancer in your left arm. And I went to a totally different place. I had this outer body experience, I was there, but I wasn’t there. And the first thing that came to my mind was if I die from this disease, who’s gonna marry my wife? And then I thought, this individual’s going to raise my kids. And I thought, oh, my gosh, will he love her and them as much as I do? And then I thought, then this came into my mind. Oh, my gosh, will he love them more? Because I. And, you know, our journey wasn’t a perfect journey. You know, I struggled a lot with success and failure. You know, I am Italian and Slovak, I got a temper. And during that period of time, I didn’t know how to control that temper. I didn’t know how to manage my anger. And, you know, when all of a sudden, you know, this, this thing comes into our life called cancer, and the uncertainty of the future. And I’m sitting there thinking about these moments in my story, almost like I’m watching a movie. And, and these, these highlight reels of the time, I got upset at the dog over the trash, stupid. You know, I get upset with my wife when I walk through the door, and the house is a mess. And the kids are running around going crazy. And I’m exhausted from the game. And I don’t understand why she doesn’t have the house in order. Taking care of the kids. And so it was just one thing after the other in my story that played on this tape, as I sat in the examining room and went, Oh, my gosh. Well, this guy love them more, because I know who I am. And it was a most incredible wake up call. It was like, Okay, God, I’m not dead yet. I got another chance. Yeah, but then I’ve got cancer. You know, what are you going to have to do? And I come back to reality. And what do I hear a Christian, outside of a miracle, you’ll never pitch again. And then my wife looks at the doctor and says, could you say that again? Outside of a miracle, he will never pitch again, my only hope is that this young man will be able to play catch with his son in the backyard.
Kristin Taylor 33:04
Dave Dravecky 33:04
And so it was it was a really difficult period of time. And yet in the midst of that, it was really interesting, because, you know, God didn’t disappear in my ugliness. I mean, that’s the beauty of His grace. No, and that love was always there. And you know, what’s amazing is, again, looking back to that place in my story. The greatest display of God’s grace was Jan Dravecky. The greatest display of God’s love for me was Jan Dravecky. the greatest display of his forgiveness was Jan Dravecky. So I’m in this space now. And we’re together moving forward with the uncertainty of the future. Not just with my life, but now with my career and my livelihood. And if I can’t come back and play if baseball is over, how am I going to provide for my family? What am I going to do to take care of my kids? And my wife? You know, I wasn’t playing in the era of the multimillion dollar contract yet. Yeah, so it was it was a really, really difficult time.
Kristin Taylor 34:21
Oh, my God, I’m sure that’s just an understatement. So overwhelming. And then as I hear you saying, just really revealing who you are. And I’m hearing just such judgment, all of the mistakes that you had made just really going to town on the places you felt like you didn’t measure.
Dave Dravecky 34:37
A lot of shame, a lot of guilt.
Kristin Taylor 34:39
Yes, a lot of shame, a lot of guilt.
Dave Dravecky 34:42
You know, I think the most important thing that was required of me was to do everything that the doctors wanted me to do. I had to be a good patient. And and so you. You know, that was, that was really hard. Because as an athlete, you know, I’m thinking, even though I’m going through this rigorous surgery, and they’re going to do a lot of stuff in my arm, once I get to the other side of healing from that, I’m on, I’m going full bore, because from my perspective, it was, okay, bottom line here is that the doctors are telling me that more than likely, I will never pitch again, outside of the miracle. But we don’t know. And I’ve got to do everything I can to try. And so if I can get to the other side of the health issue, then maybe I’ll get a chance to try and make the comeback. Um, so I was, I was very optimistic. But uncertain. Because I live in a world of reality, the most important thing for me was to pay attention to everything that they said, and really be a good patient, I did not want to mess this up, I did not want to, I did not want to do anything that would get in the way of the potential opportunity to make a comeback. And so I moved forward with post surgery in which by the way, the the surgery itself was 10 and a half hours long. They removed the entire mass that was in my arm along with 50% of the deltoid muscle, and I lost 95% use of it. But while I was in surgery, they didn’t move me during the 10 and a half hours on the beanbag. And all of a sudden, I came out of surgery in recovery, and I was in tremendous pain. And I had to be rushed back in for emergency surgery on my right leg. Because the blood flow had stopped from the beanbag and not being moved. And when they took me off to put me in recovery, the blood rushed into the main cavity of my right leg in it almost exploded. really had to relieve the pressure. They call it a fasciotomy. And they went in and they did a fasciotomy and relieve the pressure. And by the grace of God, my leg didn’t die. They didn’t have to amputate. So But wow, now I’m in rehab. Rehab, rehab in my left arm without deltoid muscle and my right leg. And so how intense Yeah, it was it was it was actually pretty amazing that I had both things going on at the same time, I had a great physical therapist. And I mean, he started with me at square one. I literally stood and he said, move your arm and I couldn’t move my arm. So he said, Okay, so we started from there where he moved it for me, to me being able to slowly resist to the point of using weights to the point of gaining strength to the point of saying, Okay, let’s move forward. And maybe there’s an opportunity here to see a comeback. And then they signed off Dr. Bergfeld. I’ll never forget at the Cleveland Clinic. He signs off and says Dave, I think you can start trying to come back.
Kristin Taylor 38:28
That must have been amazing, like stunning that the doctor is saying this.
Dave Dravecky 38:33
Oh, it was it was overwhelming for Jan and I both. It was a warm, there were moments, there were moments where it was really interesting. I came home one day and I and I looked at Jan and I said watch this. And I went with my left arm and actually moved it to the back of my pocket and took my wallet out. I mean, that was a major feat. I believe it after what you would just endured with that surgery, I believe it then I came home probably a week later. And I said you’re not going to believe this. But watch this. I got up in the kitchen, where there was some room. And I stood back like I was pretending I was on the pitcher’s mound and I went through my delivery. Why? And she just looked at me and went oh my gosh, does this mean or what? And in that moment, here’s what’s really cool. So in that moment, I looked at her and I said babe, I said, Wouldn’t it be something if somehow, Terry Kennedy, my catcher for the San Diego Padres ends up with the Giants and he ends up being my catcher. My comeback game. I have no clue whether or not I’m going to pitch in a comeback. But I just thought to myself. This would be really interesting. So all of a sudden, January rolls around, I’m still in rehab, I’m still, you know, not in that place where I’m going after it to come back. I’m still developing strength. And I look at the newspaper and I see the transactions in the paper. And Terry Kennedy, who’s just traded from the Baltimore Orioles, no, it’s just her giants. So I told her, I screamed, I said, Come here, listen to this. And so I called her and she goes, Oh, my gosh, what is God up to in this, this is just, and so ended up moving into that place where I started doing some intense rehab, to try and come back. And that period of time, wasn’t easy. It was really hard. It was hard. It was hard. Emotionally, it was hard. Physically, it was hard spiritually. Because now it was where the rubber met the road, it was really grinding it out. And, and in grinding it out. During that period of time. For me, it was oftentimes running into the wall and getting a bloody nose figuratively speaking. But the encouragement of my teammates, my my best bud out in the hammock, or who would call me and say, Hang in there, bud, you know, three steps forward, two steps back, but just keep moving forward, just take the baby steps and celebrate. And he was so encouraging along with the rest of my teammates. And it was just really cool to know that those guys were on my side along with my family that was right there with me going through it. So, you know, you can only imagine how I felt when all of a sudden that day came when it’s August 10 1989. And I am I’m getting ready to go out and pitch against Cincinnati Reds. And it’s just, you know, it’s just oh my gosh, and you that that tape that played on that day of what I went through to get there was overwhelming. Because it was a reminder of all the amazing people that God uses to accomplish his purposes. And on that day for me, it was looking back and remembering Dr. George Mosler and Claire Huxtable, who was our nurse, she looked just like Claire, on the farm, I remember you saying that. She was so beautiful. And she was so sweet. And she was the most amazing woman in helping Joe and me, my roommate, you know, get through all the stuff we were doing. And I think about her care, I think about the care of the folks. You know that that followed up with the therapy from the people in Ohio to the people in San Francisco, Larry Brown in his team, Dr. Caldwell and his team, Dr. Campbell and his team, all these people that played a part in my story that brought me to that culminating moment on August 10 1989, where I stood on the mound. And Kristin, in that moment, when I started the mount, the thing that went through my mind was, I want to thank every one of you for helping me get there. Because this was not just me, this was the effort of so many that made that possible. Yeah.
Kristin Taylor 43:30
Well, you just stole my question. You just like read it verbatim. I’m getting you back to that day. And what that must have been like I’m hearing like, the way I think about that, and I haven’t had anything epic. And that public sort of way happened to me. But during difficult times these like Earth Angels just kind of show up this orchestration from the other side, guiding and supporting and so let’s get you to that mound. That crowd is going wild. I hear you recognizing all that was contributed by other people in this gratitude that you felt. Yeah. What else did you feel? I mean, there you stand. What’s going through your mind?
Dave Dravecky 44:09
Well, I mean, the reality that I’m back with my teammates, I mean, that it is so hard, living on the outside looking in, and knowing that you can’t contribute knowing that you can’t participate. And for days and weeks and months, it goes on and on and on. You know, and, and when you get to that level, it’s more than just the competitive juices. It’s the camaraderie of these guys that live with more than you live with your wife. Yeah, it’s the relationships with those guys. It’s it’s the it’s that aspect of team that allows you to experience the joy of being a baseball player. It’s not just the fact that I get to go out and play. It’s the joy of doing it with the 24 other guys. And that was the beautiful, beautiful thing about that day was being able to go back and experience that. And and realize that I’m finally back in the saddle. Yeah, I’m hearing the joy you talked about once the pressure kind of melts away when you have that shift in perspective, that you’re so much more connected to joy, that’s such a beautiful thing. So five, that five days after your impossible return to the big lakes, you’re set to face the Expos in Montreal. What was it like mentally, emotionally, spiritually? To prepare for the second start? Um, well, I think I think in all of it, it was easy. On him, like, Okay, this is what I’m used to. This is what I’m familiar with. And, and that was the beauty of finally being reconnected with my teammates, a familiarity. It was understanding what I needed to do in preparation for this next start Montreal. It was, it was being able to enjoy my teammates, for four days after the combat game. And, and to experience that, that I had never experienced that I hadn’t experienced for almost 11 months. And so from a physical standpoint, I was feeling great. So there was nothing out of the ordinary, it was back to that normal routine, which I loved. From an emotional standpoint, home Akash. To me, I was on high. I mean, it was it was the beauty of now being able to actually reengage with all the passion, and all the joy that comes with being a teammate and a baseball player at the big league level. That was absolutely beautiful. And then from a spiritual perspective, again, it was it was just this overwhelming gratitude, this overwhelming thankfulness that I had been given a second chance, a second chance with this career that I love so much. But what’s really interesting was I had a conversation about five hours before the game that I started against the Expos with my teammate, Bob Knepper. And he made a comment to me that, that at the time, I thought was okay, it was it was cool, but I’m in the saddle. I’m playing. You know, I’m not really thinking about what he said. And he made this comment. He said, Dave, it’s not the miracle of the comeback that’s so important in your story. So what I think it is, is the miracle of salvation. It was that day that you entered into this journey with God through his Son. And what God’s doing is sharing his allowing you through baseball, has created this baseball as a platform for you to share His love with those who hurt
Kristin Taylor 48:10
Oh, my God.
Dave Dravecky 48:11
I thought I thought, okay, that’s really cool, but I’m the hurt man. Yeah, you know, I’m okay. So, what’s this mean? You know, so I was like, Okay, God, that’s really cool. But at the end of the day, I’ve got to start in five hours. And I’m going to go out there and hopefully, it’s going to be the same results as the comeback in your first five innings, Kristen, it was absolutely beautiful. Loving it again. I mean, I’m feeling so good. It’s like nothing ever happened. In in the sixth inning, Tim Raines comes to the plate. I am waiting for Terry Kennedy’s signal behind home plate as to what he wants me to throw. He gives me a sinking fastball on the outside part of the plate. I go through my delivery. And I release the ball to the plate and my left arm snaps in half. And I go falling to the ground. And all I could hear were Bob Nappers words, wow. God is providing a platform through baseball for you to share His love with those who hurt and it kept going over and over and over and over in my mind. And so as I was laying there, obviously I was trying to regroup, get my faculties back, I almost went into shock, because it was clearly my breath from the intensity of the pain course and and once I was able to breathe, you know, obviously this thing is going on in my mind and one of my crutches, God, there is something bigger going on the baseball in this in this this whole story. There’s something much bigger going on. I don’t know what it is, but something’s going on. And, and I, you know end up going to the hospital getting an x ray. Here’s the most incredible thing in all this. I had a spiral oblique, that means that when I broke the the the arm rotated like this and then snapped. So it wasn’t a clean break in half. It was a rotating and snapping which meant it splintered. So I get to the hospital, they do the X rays. I’m told that I have a broken arm. It hasn’t protruded through the skin, so I’m safe. I see the sight of blood pass out. So, you know, I was really grateful that you know, none of that stuff happened. With oxygen. I can’t put you in a cast. I’m just going to put you in a sling. You’re gonna have to sit up right when you go to sleep. Otherwise the bone isn’t going to heal properly. It needs to have gravity for it to go straight. When you get back to San Francisco, make sure you see the docks, you know get all that taken care of. They’ll take care. He writes me a script, we go to the you know, they give me painkillers. I go back to the hotel. And then my room. Couple of my buddies come in and they’re hanging with me and every one of my teammates knocked on my door. Checking on me. My manager Roger Craig, pitching coach norm Sherry, all the coaches. Al Rosen, the president of the organization. Everybody associated with baseball, the traveling secretary. My third, like my trainer, all the guys came in to make sure Dave was okay. Then I had Natalie Hammacher Scottie. Brett Butler, Greg Litton, Jeff Brantley, all sitting on my bed in my room until 230 In the morning, looking at each other going, What in the world is going on? This is nuts. Kind of like what’s happening in front of us. And so I said, guys, I gotta get up early. I’m gonna need help with would you guys come down and help me get a shower? You know, I can’t if I fall, I’m toast. So I’m going to need some support. I’m going to need some help. So they said they would come down in the morning. And I decided to go to bed. During that whole time, I forgot I had pain meds and I hadn’t taken one. Oh my gosh. I didn’t even know. I had no pain. It was bizarre thing. That is so bizarre. So Scotty looks at me, Scotty looked at me say hey, you got those pain meds. Don’t chase them yet. Because you know what, I’d advise you to take one before you go to bed. I said, Okay, I’ll do that. So, you know, I’ve just when I sit back and I think about that, I can actually go to that place at the Sheraton Hotel in Montreal, in my room with my the door open. All those guys coming in. And my bud sitting on the bed with me. And I can go there. We were. I missed the spread after the game. Usually there’s a really good meal. Yeah. My nickname was snacks. Okay. Snacks didn’t get any snacks after the game, needless to say. And I was starving, though. So Scotty says, I’m going out. I’ll bring food back. I mean, it’s gonna be a massive purchase. He finds a Burger King that’s open. He had to spend 200 bucks, because we had more hamburgers and french fries, and you can shake a stick at he sat there just threw it on the bed. And by the time we were done talking, before I went to bed, all that food was gone. It was all larious just so you know. Yeah, it just I look back on all that. And it was just unbelievable. No, you wish there was there was no anger. Yeah, there was no wine me. And please, no. Anger is more than appropriate. And why me is more than an appropriate question to ask. But for me, it was I just couldn’t get over in my mind. Why was I allowed to make the comeback? Why didn’t my arm break in the three minor league games prior to the comeback game?
Kristin Taylor 54:41
Yeah. And just watching your face right now. Because exactly. I could so imagine hearing the story and you are in devastation. You’re sitting alone. Like I don’t want to talk to anybody and just one of the lowest places of your life having had had that happen to you. I’m hearing such a vastly different story.
Dave Dravecky 54:59
Thinking back. It was amazing. It was amazing. It really, it was it was one of those places in my story that I can go back in the midst of all the pain and all the suffering that Jan and I went through counts, all the stuff after that, when you go back, and that’s a monument. That’s a reminder of the beauty of relationships, the beauty of God’s faithfulness, a story that was being written that I didn’t know completely, only in part, but a story that I’m that today, looking back, I’m so grateful I experienced because of where he’s brought me where I’m at today.
Kristin Taylor 55:52
Yeah, yeah. Well, let’s move the story forward a bit. Move us forward medically and emotionally, what’s what’s happening? Because there’s a lot that progresses up to your amputation. And then I want to move us there if you would, please.
Dave Dravecky 56:07
Yeah. Um, post baseball, the cancer reoccurs. And obviously, there are more surgeries. One of the things that did happen that I thought was really important was, there was a switch in doctors only because my wife’s first cousin got involved, who was a liver oncologist, and a fellow at Sloan Kettering Cancer Research Center. And as a result of that, I ended up at Sloan Kettering with Dr. Marie Brennan, who was the chief surgery, who then took over the case, and started dealing with the return of the cancer. And so the first surgery came, and then I had to have radiation therapy after that. Then, you know, a while after that, another surgery, more cancer reoccurred. More radiation therapy, then the cancer came back. And so they had to do another surgery, and what they call a flap. And then all of a sudden, again, I get a staph infection that lasts for 10 months. And then
Kristin Taylor 57:17
God That’s terrifying.
Dave Dravecky 57:18
And so, you know, at that point, and in the middle of all of that, emotionally, spiritually, and physically, it’s now one of these. It’s a roller coaster, roller coaster, you know, some good moments, but some bad moments, are good moments, and some more bad moments. And finally, I went to see the Doc, I’m in relationship to the staph infection. And he goes, you know, Dave, I’m really concerned that the infection, the infection is going to spread into the main part of your body has to take your life. And so it’s time to remove your left arm and shoulder. And I looked at him and I said, I’m ready. Let’s just get rid of this thing. And what was really interesting was, he said, Well, here’s what I’m going to do. We’re going to go in, we’re going to do a biopsy first. If I don’t find any cancer, I’m not going to take your arm. We’re going to close you up. And then we’re going to do we’re going to put together a plan for reconstructive surgery. I said, Okay, Doc, let me ask you one question. If you go in, and there’s no cancer, and you so me up, what does reconstructive surgery mean? He explained it to me. I said, Well, then I have one last question. After you do this, will I be able to use my arm? And he said, No. And I looked him in the eyes. And I said, then I don’t want my arm. I said, I want you to take it. That’s simple. If I can’t use it, I don’t care if there’s cancer in there or not. I’m done. This thing has gotten in the way for eight months. I am done. Wow. In that night, he called my family doctor back in Ohio, Chuck McGowan. And Dr. Brennan said, Chuck is this kid for real? He doesn’t want his left arm. And Dr. Gallin told Dr. Brennan, if he doesn’t want it, then that means he doesn’t want it. So what he’s saying is take the arm. Next day, I go in for surgery. And they prep me and he’s still taking that same approach. There’s no cancer. I’m not taking it. Really? Yeah. Post surgery, post surgery. The arms gone. I find out there was no cancer with the biopsy. Listen, he he, he ordered. He honored me and it was so beautiful because it was such relief. In that moment, I was like, Okay, it’s gone. I’m a little scared to look corners, the future holds but it’s gone. It’s not in the way any more. For the next day, I’ll never forget, they put me the day after recovery. I was in my hospital room now. And I wanted to get out of bed. The next morning when I woke up, and I wanted to look, I had to look till I go to get out of bed now almost fell out of bed because I was so busy in the nurses and was without my left arm and so I had no balance. So yeah, so I was like, Whoa, I got I leaned back in bed, I hit the buzzer. The nurse comes in, and she goes, What the heck are you doing? Just wanted to get out of bed so I can see. Because you need assistance, you don’t have your arm. It’s a balance issue. On top of that you just had intensive surgery. To us, I’m sorry, I’m sorry, which is helped me get out of bed so I can go look. And I got up out of bed and I went into the bathroom. And I had my head down. And I picked my head up. And I looked into the mirror. Oh my gosh. whole left side of my body’s gone. It’s gone. And then I took a deep breath. And these were the words that actually came out of my mouth as I stared in the mirror. Okay, God, this is the deck of cards that you’ve given me? Yes, we got to move forward living like this was like, Oh my dear. Here we go. And, and I and I had no clue what I was about to experience. For the first week while I was in the hospital. I was there for five days. And then they released me. During that period of time, Jan and I had received so many gifts from people all over the country. We had cookies, we had cake. We had more cookies, we had more NIC we had more flowers than you could shake a stick out. They were downstairs, they were upstairs. They were everywhere. So what we finally did during that time, when we were in the hospital, as I said, You know what, babe, we got to share the wealth. There’s people on our floor, they don’t even have people visiting them. Yes, so we started going in and filling up every room with flowers. And going, Hey, I can’t eat all these cookies you want some and we would sit and visit meet cookies with the with the people that were in their hospital rooms. And it was a beautiful time. And it it was really healing for me because it took a while it took me from from the the reality of what had just happened, and allowed me to put my focus on something else. Other than that, I can see the gift and that really can and it was it was beautiful. But we got home a couple weeks later, I was a mess.
Kristin Taylor 1:02:51
How could you not be? I mean, I imagined for me if I lost an arm, it would be devastating. But I am not a major league baseball player my relationship to my arm is nothing like your relationship to yours and the identity around being a pitcher. Yeah, share more about as you call them the valleys. Yeah. What was that like?
Dave Dravecky 1:03:12
Yeah, the valleys were really, really hard. It was the identity crisis. You know, if I can no longer be a pitcher than Who am I writing you recite a quote, In the beginning of your introduction. It’s not what you do that matters most. It’s who you are. Well, everything was about what I did. Not about who I was, it was all about what I did. And all of a sudden, I ran into this image in the mirror that could no longer focus on the fact that this is who I am based on what I did. And so I ended up in this identity crisis. And and it was a really difficult period of time. It’s so hard for me to recall the details. Jan Jan Jan knows the teacher. She’s my detailed girl. And, and yet there was a period of time there where she was struggling to with clinical depression, trying to meet the demands of everything that was going on in our story during that time. 1000s of people writing to us, wishing us well sharing their heartfelt stories, and Jan feeling the need to respond to all those people on top of that, to me, taking care of my kids overwhelmed and so she burned out. She needed help. And in the process of that we ultimately got to counseling and and we went to counseling by the way, Kristin because Jan was the one that was messed up and she needed to help me. And then roughly three weeks into the counseling right around the time of the amputation right after the amputation. I was the one ended up on the couch. And man, I gotta tell you that was, that was an eye opener for Dave Dravecky, I had absolutely no clue about the art of communicating. Yes. And that was part of the reason for the anger issues that was part of the reason for the frustration that I experienced. And the fear that was there. Because in order, in order to find relief, from the fear and the frustration, you have to be able to identify what it is you’re afraid of what it is you’re frustrated with. And in order to identify it, you actually have to take enough time to think about it, you have to take enough time to process what’s going on inside. And then you have to talk about it. Well, most men have do not have those skills. And I was learning for the first time that I had no skills whatsoever to be able to manage that. And that’s why I was in the trouble that I was in. And while we sat, we sat through 18 months of the most beautiful time in our life, with counseling. Because I learned about my wife, I learned about the deep things that she was struggling with. He began to draw out the deep things in my story that I was struggling with. It was never the two of us against one another and our relationship being threatened. It was always the two of us having to face ourselves. Yes, in the unhealthy places that we had put ourselves in. And being able to work through those, we were actually able to intersect with each other and be able to find a really healthy place for the two of us through the art of communicating. And by the way, Jim was an incredible communicator. And she still is to this day, I was the one that really had to learn that. And that that became a beautiful, beautiful thing in our marriage that brought us so much closer together in the midst of the uncertainty of life and the struggles that we were facing, you know, and I still had to figure out how I was going to provide a living for my family, I had to figure out what I was going to do as an amputee.
Kristin Taylor 1:07:31
Well, that’s yeah, that that is where I want to take us. I mean, what I’m really hearing is this conscious relationship, you’re becoming self aware, vulnerable, you’re understanding your own thinking and feeling and belief systems and coping mechanisms that were, I’m hearing really not up to the task for where you found yourself, but you put in the work, the courageous vulnerable work to become conscious and accountable, and to create that level of intimacy and trust that was required of you. So I just imagine there are listeners right now who are going through their own depths of despair. They’re in their own valleys. What advice given where you’ve been and where you are now? What do you want them to take away from your story?
Dave Dravecky 1:08:24
I think the most important thing is don’t do it alone. Start there. I’ll never forget Jan’s saying, when I get to the other side. I want to come alongside people and help them know they’re not alone. I think so many people journey through the valleys of pain and suffering. And I think the beauty of our story is that that moment when I fell on the mound, and all I could hear were Bob nippers words. There’s a wonderful saying. Oswald Chambers is quoted, and it’s my paraphrase version of what he says. But it goes something like this. God gives us a vision. In that moment, I was given a vision to encourage people who hurt with the platform of baseball. But then he takes us into the valleys of life to shape us into the vision so that when we get to the other side, we then do what we’ve experienced in the valley, and learned as we were shaped, we could then come out and encourage others. And I think for Jan and I, the most important thing that we’ve discovered on the journey is the power of relationship. The power of knowing that you don’t have to do it alone. and that there are people who love you and care deeply about you the significance of understanding how important it is to engage with people you trust. You can’t just go sharing your, your deep, dark hurts with anyone. It’s got to be people who you trust. And and it’s and I would encourage your listeners if they’re in that place. It’s not just people who you trust. But it’s people who desire not to fix you. But simply to love you. Love that as you walk through the valley. Because what we want to know is in not being alone, that this person we trust is really going to love us, as all of our stuff gets exposed. Will you love me in my ugliest moments? Will you care for me? When this is discovered about me that isn’t so pretty? Will you stay with me in it for the long haul? And in the most important aspect of staying in it. And understanding there are people who don’t fix you, is nine times out of 10, it’s somebody who just is willing to be there in it with you. Yes, they don’t have to worry about words to share. They don’t have to worry about coming up with a solution to the problem. We simply need to be there in it with you. That alone is a powerful display of love. In the book of Job. Job goes through this horrendous experience. And he has three friends who come to him when they hear of his trials, to engage with him, because they care about him. And for the first seven days, Job’s friends were silent. And then they begin to speak. And that’s when all the trouble became became a reality for job when they open their mouths. So the other thing is to seek out people who are good listeners. And if you’re in the audience listening, and you know, someone who’s hurting, be a good listener, let them let them dump. give them permission to be vulnerable with you. In the vulnerability, there is freedom. Because when you’re able to talk about your pain, when you’re able to express the deep, deep hurts that are in there, there’s freedom in being able to express that and get it out. The pain is when you hold it in, because you can’t find a safe enough place to express it.
Kristin Taylor 1:12:56
So beautifully said.
Dave Dravecky 1:12:58
You know, safety is important. Unsafe people, buying people you trust, find people who love you, warts and all, find people who don’t want to fix you. And remember, you can’t do this alone. So it’s worth the investment and finding those people and seeking them out.
Kristin Taylor 1:13:16
Yes, that is what we’re here to do for each other. Yeah, that’s what we’re here to do for each other. That is so so beautifully said thank you so much for sharing that. I just have one final question. And you have just shared with this level of depth and wisdom, humanity vulnerability, you touch the places that so many of us experienced, but don’t always have the words for. So I’m in just real gratitude for that.
Dave Dravecky 1:13:44
Kristin Taylor 1:13:45
With all of what you’ve gone through, in all of where you are now and who you are now. What do you want your legacy to be?
Dave Dravecky 1:13:57
You know, it’s really interesting that you asked me that question. Probably about 10 years ago, I was sitting with a friend of mine. And he asked me this question. He said, as we’re talking about the impact and the influence we want to have in our life. Let’s go all the way to the end when we die. And he goes, What do you want written on your tombstone? And I looked at him and I was just baffled. I had no, I didn’t know what I wanted to have on my tombstone. also afraid of thinking about death. I didn’t even want to go there to be honest with you. So I looked at him and I said, Well, what do you want on yours? He said, you know, Dave, I’ve given this a lot of thought. And he said, I just want people to know that I want I want my wife to write on my tombstone that I loved God and others. Well. That’s what I think this life is really about. And so I looked at him, and I kind of stared at him and I thought to myself, Do I have the guts to ask I asked him if it’s okay to have that one too. And I said, Do you mind if I use that one? He said, No, go right ahead. You know, Kristen might my life is so much about my relationship with Jesus because my life has been transformed. I am a different man today than before I met him. And, and the reality is that my life today is about not just engaging with the one who loves me more than I can comprehend, but to actually live a life that expresses my love for him. And the one way that I can do that is to love people, like he does. And so that’s what I want my life to be. I want it to be about loving him and others really well. And at the end of the day, I’d be good.
Kristin Taylor 1:16:10
That is a beautiful place for us to end the interview. Thank you so much for showing up in your loving presence with us today. I appreciate that.
Dave Dravecky 1:16:21
Kristin, thank you.
Kristin Taylor 1:16:22
You’re welcome. Thank you.
Nuggets of wisdom. That is what they have called them. And that is where he shared so much beautiful and poignant nuggets of wisdom, too many to even capture. Here are just some that I will highlight. And of course paraphrase. He said that so much of life is about enjoying it to the fullest, and experiencing it in the midst of difficult circumstances, the heart and painful places, so that we’re not robbed of the learning the beauty and the gift of what we’re going through. And then more nuggets in the form of the importance of relationships, the art of communication, understanding how to identify, feel and process emotions, how to talk about them and create more harmonious and integrated relationships. So much of Dave’s story is about learning to truly face himself in all new ways to find himself beyond just the identity of being a ballplayer, what a roller coaster that must have been as he learned to find himself on the other side of an amputation. I’m so grateful that he gave words to how painful the process was. And I’m so grateful for his openness and humility, because in them both, he extends an offer to us all to recognize and honor our own suffering, as it’s always an integrated part, an integral part of our healing. He reminds us that we, each of us, are called to walk alongside one another, and to offer a hand, particularly in the form of listening, not fixing. I think we can all learn to listen more and fix less. Even when someone feels and looks broken. Simply start by listening. And of course, if it is you who feels kind of broken, you reminds us how crucial it is to have safe people to simply assign for Dave. He wants his legacy to be at he loved Jesus and others really well. And that at the end of the day, and he will be good with that. If no one has asked you recently, what do you dear listener, want your legacy to be?
Our theme song and sound engineering was provided by Shane Suffriti. You can listen to more of Shane’s music at www.shanesuffriti.com If you have a story about making it through something that forever changed you or want to tell us what you think about our podcast, send me an email at email@example.com. If you enjoy today’s episode, we humbly ask that you share it with others. Thank you for listening. We’ll see you next time on How I Made It Through.
Unknown Speaker 1:19:21
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