Dr. Matthew McKay  00:04

We are not alone. We love doesn’t die with, you know, the old people we love, we’re on the other side are still there, the love still exists, the relationships still exist, and they are capable and we’re capable of talking to each other. We’re not isolated, we’re not alone. Those relationships continue to live.

Kristin Taylor  00:35

Hello, and welcome to How I Made It Through. My name is Kristin Taylor, and I’m an executive and life coach. I’m continually awed and inspired by those who have walked through challenge and adversity, only to come out the other side more self aware, and more deeply purposeful in their commitment to wisdom, love, and compassion. Our lives are short, but they are not without meaning. And I believe we are more alike than we are different. My hope is that this show through the sharing of ordinary people, moving through extraordinary circumstances, opens minds and hearts by interviewing those who have a lot to say about why we’re here, and how to live more fully. Dr. Matthew McKay holds a PhD in Clinical Psychology, and is a professor of psychology at the Wright Institute. 50 years ago, he co founded new Harbinger publications. More recently, he founded the Berkeley Cognitive Behavioral Therapy Clinic, and co founded the Bay Area Trauma Recovery Clinic to serve low income clients. Dr. McKay has co written more than 35, psychology, professional, and self help books that have a combined sales of 4 million copies. 14 years ago, his son Jordan died, and his life as he knew it changed. He began a journey to find him and make contact at first for reassurance that he still existed, and later to learn what he knows about the afterlife, and why we come to this difficult planet. I cannot imagine topics more fascinating and important than these. And I’m so grateful that you’ve agreed to spend your time with us today. Matt, welcome. Glad to be here. Yeah, it’s so nice to have you. And we had an opportunity to talk before the show. And to determine really where we want to focus. There’s so much to cover. And you have such an immense background, both professionally and in terms of research and psychology, as well as your inquiry into the afterlife and your relationship with your son and all that he has taught you. Can you share about just to get us started and to set the tone, your mission and communicating his message.

Dr. Matthew McKay  02:52

My mission evolved from the last 14 years of connecting to Jordan and learning about the afterlife and our purpose here in coming to this planet, and it’s now pretty clear to me that you know, my work, my role is to try to provide that knowledge to other people. And if they want to give them the means to connect to the other side to the afterlife, loved ones there to get their own knowledge and information about what lies beyond death.

Kristin Taylor  03:30

Yes, yes. And I was sharing and I’ll share with our audience. I felt like I was coming out of the closet so to speak spiritually when I started to share more openly ideas that others can dismiss and disregard as we will. And I so appreciate with some someone with your credentials, that you have taken this risk, can you share a little bit about that choice and then and then we’ll we’ll dive in. Because my hope and hearing someone with your background is that those who might be on the fence or could really benefit from the comfort of the message messages you are going to share that they can open their minds perhaps a little bit more?

Dr. Matthew McKay  04:14

Well, I guess my story or my life changed radically. When my son died, he was on his way home from work and some men accosted him and probably just to try to steal his bike. There’s a huge fight that ensued and he was shot and died on the street. And at that moment, everything in my life change. And as I think any parent or anyone who loses someone they care for, wants to know I I just became had a deep need to know whether Jordan continues to exist and whether he is okay, wherever that is. And so it pushed me to You know, it launched me into this effort to seek him to make contact with him. And I, you know, I worked with mediums for a while. And I had the experience of the medium telling me what Jordan was saying, and sometimes telling me things that only I would know. So that was very convincing. But still, I was depending on someone who had some sort of link to the other side. And ultimately, I wanted to have a more direct sense of him. I went to see a fellow named Alan Botkin. And Chicago psychologist for many years, worked in the VA and worked with trauma people, and discovered accidentally a way of adapting EMDR Eye Movement Desensitization reprocessing, which we use to treat trauma to actually make contact with the other side. And he had fallen into this accidentally by just making a small unconscious modification in the, in the treatment process, and, and found that he could actually induce connection to the other side, and I went to see him. And I had the experience of actually hearing Jordan’s voice. I mean, it was as if he was standing right next to me. And he did say the things I needed to hear, he told me that he was happy, he was okay. He, he was with us, he was, you know, still loved us. He was aware of us, he was watching over us. And so that was really very powerful. And yet, it still was passive. I was, you know, I heard his voice. So that was really, hugely important. And I could feel some of my grief beginning to lift. But I also wanted to have a conversation with him, just like we always did, sitting around the kitchen table and, and to be able to ask questions and hear back from him what he thought and for him to say things to me that I could consider and respond to. So I went to see the late Ralph Messner, who was a specialist in after death communication. And he taught me how to do channeled writing or channeling, and saw also called automatic writing. And it was actually a very simple process. And I was surprised at how easy it was to learn within an hour, I mean, less than an hour, I’d learned the basic principles of thing. I went home that night, and had my first real conversation with Jordan, through the channeling process, wow. And that was more than was about 13 years ago, I guess, that I first had that experience. And I, since then, I’ve had hundreds and hundreds of conversations with Jordan, in which he’s taught me a lot about what death is what we can expect, on the other side, in the afterlife, the various aspects of life. On the other side, what our purposes here why we come to this difficult planet and struggle so much in this place. You know, what, what’s the reason for that? What’s our mission here? So he eats, he’s taught me a lot over these many, many hundreds of conversations. And he has also suggested that we turn some of this into, into books and and so that process has been ongoing, we still have these projects of writing books together, because he feels like there’s still more he wants to convey to a living audience.

Kristin Taylor  08:35

Gosh, I have so many questions. And I love how you open this up to endorse because I have read it in the messages are so powerful. The luminous landscape of the afterlife is the one that I read. And I like I said, I have so many questions about what he is revealing to you in those hundreds of conversations. But before we go there, you and I were talking about how liberating it can be not to need a conduit to be able to have that conversation and that it is remarkably more straightforward and easy to access than one might imagine. Can you start to share a little bit about how one might start to do that?

Dr. Matthew McKay  09:16

Well, I can tell you exactly what Ralph taught me and what has worked for me and I’ve taught hundreds of people to candle and most of them report the ability to do it. It doesn’t require any special their audience or any special powers really because I have no I do not have any special powers. But it does involve a kind of a protocol, a process that that you go through. So the first thing I would suggest for anybody who wants to channel is to get an object that connects them to the person on the other side to that loved one was died as something that they were given something perhaps, that that person owned. And it doesn’t have to be anything important. It can be a small object, but it’s just to have something, because I think it’s really important because objects often do connect us to the debt. And they haven’t, they have the power to kind of hold the love between the living and the dead. In any event, get something like that, then you want something for I fixation, candles work, right thing, you just look at the candle, look at the flame, watch it dancing. And if you want to get a special candle holder or anything that, you know, priests an element of ceremony, go ahead and do that. And then the process itself once you have something to bring your attention to one spot, and you have this object that connects you is just just to begin a very simple Vipassana meditation is a breathing meditation, where you breathe in, you count your breath, you just notice where the breath goes into your diaphragm, bring your attention down to that center of breath, all of your attention is on your diaphragm. You breathe in, you say in as you breathe out, you say out and, and just begin that process. And when thoughts arise, just go back to the breath. And of course, that’s what happens, our thoughts will always arise, that’s fine. Let his thoughts arise, go back to the breath. And gradually, you begin to slow down, your thoughts slow down your your internal level of arousal begins to slow down and quiet. And you’re becoming more receptive. And you might go through 10 breaths, 20 breaths, 30 breaths, whatever it is. But you get to a point where you start to feel kind of receptive. At that point, it’s really important to form the clear intention that you’re going to communicate to a look. And you’re going to be and bring your bring to your awareness how much you love that person, because the love actually opens the connection, it is actually the medium through which we communicate to the dead so that being aware of your love, is the beginning of opening the channel. Then, now, having gotten into a receptive place, having brought your attention to your loved one and the love that you feel, simply imagine an orb above your heads, maybe the color of the sun, and just visualize it. And then imagine it’s lengthening, lengthening, lengthening, and it in a tube like fashion. And it stretches between you and your loved one in now that is the connection, you’re visualizing the connection, the channel opening up between you and the loved one. In my view, it’s important to have something to write on a napkin in a notebook. But it doesn’t matter a piece of paper, anything that you can write on a pen in your hand. And when you’re ready, now the channel is open. You’ve gotten into that receptive place, you can ask your first question usually helps to begin channeling with a question and write the question down the act of writing the question and watching the words form on the page actually helps to open the communication is almost a form of hypnosis, watching the words form as you write, and then you wait and just let the very first thing that enters your mind. It might be just a syllable or a word, whatever it is, write it down, this will be starting to get the answers. And there may be doubts, don’t worry about it. But your mind is never empty. And so now just begin to write down what shows up in your mind in response to that question. In the beginning, you may not know where it’s going, it’s a few words, and you have no idea but don’t worry, just write it down. And wait for the next few words to show up and wait for the next few worship show. And gradually you’ll have a sentence and then there may be more senses. So just give it time and see where it goes. Just whatever shows up in your mind is fine. Sometimes people have just images that show up and they’re not words. And these so I guess I want to emphasize that communication with the other side and have different forms sometimes it’s just a few short phrases sometimes is we call it download where you get this all this information and then you have to find words to describe it. It’s like you can’t really you know, it’s an it’s an awareness that you then have to find language or and sometimes it’s just like, you know, almost pressured speech is coming out your words very quickly, almost more quickly than you can write down and it comes in different forms and sometimes it comes only in images and pictures. Whatever it is write it then. And then when you This is quiet and that seems to be the answer has been completed. Write your next question.

Kristin Taylor  15:09

Okay. Okay. So to get really mechanical about this do you come with the questions in your mind, but not pre written. But then as you are in this receptive state, that’s when you just begin to write them?

Dr. Matthew McKay  15:26

I usually have one question in my mind that I want to start with. And I may have a couple of things that I want to ask about or talk about. I mean, a lot of times I get an advice from Jordan, what should I do about this? Or that, you know, I mean, it’s a it’s not just, you know, asking about the Avalon. Um, you know, and the folks on the other side are very wise, and they have hundreds of lives they’ve lived in, they have access to a lot of knowledge that we don’t have. So they can often help us with some of our human problems, and advises, but also, you know, whatever the question is, you know, I have one or two in mind, right? But often, it’s just like conversation. It’s like, whatever that’s sold, says in response to your first question may prompt other questions. And so you may, you know, find the conversation going in places you never expected, which is wonderful. And and you’re, you’re you’re discovering, without having, you know, a preset idea about where this has to go.

Kristin Taylor  16:26

Yes, yes. I love that word preset idea about are those terms preset idea idea about where this girl, because when you started, it was you sharing that you actually heard his voice, like you’re at the kitchen table with him, but for some people, and in some moments of doing this, it could be images, it could be sound, it could be words, it could be just a knowing, but without a voice, am I understanding you?

Dr. Matthew McKay  16:52

It can come in lots of different ways. When I actually heard his voice, it was induced after death communication that Alan Botkin did, it was it’s a process that comes out of EMDR. But with channeling, I hear his voice inside my head, it’s not coming from outside, I but I hear the words forming in my mind. But I can feel that they’re not my words, there, his distinct way of communicating is his use of language. And, and very often, he says things that surprise me that are things that I don’t know about. And suddenly, he’s opening up a doorway to, you know, to, to view, a reality that’s well beyond my knowledge.

Kristin Taylor  17:32

And that’s where I want to go in just a moment. But my assumption, also, much like, when we learn to meditate, the more frequently we do it, the more quickly we can go there and allow that channel to be opened.

Dr. Matthew McKay  17:48

Yeah, the first time I did it, it was it was like a few phrases would kind of sewed together into a sentence. There might be another sentence. And I’d ask another question, and another couple of phrases in a sentence. So it, I think, with practice, it just gets easier and easier and easier to open the channel and easier to hear. And I just want to emphasize, though, there’s always doubt people will always end anyone will experience doubt, because you’re saying, Well, is this am I making this up? Is this really something that you know, is is is my own wish or hope that I’m I’m turning into, you know, a kind of a fiction here. And so there is always doubt. But what I found is that when people begin to channel and begin these conversations, and this is certainly been true for me, they learn things and experience things that feel so authentic. And so, right in terms of, you know, what, what they’re learning from that loved one, and the kinds of things the loved one says and the kinds of things the knowledge that that loved one brings to them. That actually, the doubts soften. They don’t ever go away completely, but they soften. And it gives you this confidence that if I keep coming back enough, I keep these conversations going. I’m going to learn a lot and also the here’s the other important thing. Another part of my mission is to just know that we are not alone. We love doesn’t die. You know, the old people we love we’re on the other side are still there, the love still exists, the relationships still exists, and they are capable and we’re capable of talking to each other. We’re not isolated, we’re not alone. Those relationships continue to live. And you know you anyone can make use of that just by channeling and following their love because the Love opens the channel. One of the things that Ralph said to me that really just stuck with me is that the mere thought of your loved one. They’re just a thought away so the mirror On our stolen the channel, and we don’t know that when we think of the loved one and we were feeling yearning and loss and, and and you remember remembering the lovely things about them. We don’t, we don’t really know that we’re at that very moment the channel is opening, we could begin to communicate through that channel, through the mirror off and love of that person on the other side the level carry the message back and forth. And this is something that we don’t realize, but it’s actually happening every time we think of the loved one.

Kristin Taylor  20:35

Yes, I think that message will hold so much comfort for so many of us, I really appreciate you emphasizing that. I would like to ask, I’m gonna ask a really, really big question. Why are we here? On this difficult planet? What are you learning?

Dr. Matthew McKay  20:55

Yeah, and I think this is something that we struggle with. And you know, because there’s so much pain, so much pain, permanence, we, you know, everything around us is constantly in flux, constantly changing the things that we love, and be taken from us at any moment. And, and things continue to kind of break apart, you know, the break, poets of things fall apart, and they do. And in the face of all of that, things falling apart and the and the loss that we suffered constantly in the face of impermanence, what what is it? What is the reason we come to such a place? And in fact, you know, in terms of reincarnation that souls, reincarnate report that this is a rather difficult planet, among places that that people go to live lives. And the reason Jordan tells me that we come here is to learn. We evolve and grow as souls in this environment. And in particular, we’re learning how to love in the face of pain, which is an extraordinarily important thing. These are lessons actually, we can’t learn in the afterlife, we can’t learn in the spirit world, how do you love in the face of pain, let their love is effortless. The medium of communication is through love. And there’s no hurt, there’s no rejection. And here, we have so many obstacles to love. I’m just having this as a silly example would be silly. But a simple example would be, you know, a parent that comes home from work and they’ve had a hard day their boss screamed at them. They’re worried about their job. They’re exhausted, and their child is feeling sad and scared and worried about their homework. And they have to somehow find a way in the face of all of that pain, their own sadness, their own fear, their own exhaustion in the face of all of that they have to find a way to care for their child and help with the child’s feelings at home. It’s as simple as that. Another example like that would be doing two partners where one partner is served complaining and telling the other partner, you know how there are certain things that they need different than their relationship. And the partner is hearing that is hurt, starts to feel maybe defective, there’s something wrong with me. And it’s incredibly painful. And that pain makes them want to withdraw or get angry or do something to cope with. That hurt. And to love in the face of that pain is to find a way how to how do I acknowledge what my partner is saying in a meeting, and listen and care about this, even though I’m feeling hurt and scared and ashamed. And these are just simple examples. But But we’re here to learn that because those are things we cannot learn in the afterlife doesn’t have those lessons. So we have to come to a place that with pain in order to learn how to love in the face of that.

Kristin Taylor  24:08

Yeah, yeah, I hear you loud and clear. And the pain and the difficulty and oftentimes the trauma, as painful as they are they are the teacher, they are the route should we heed the potential for learning to love despite them or because of them or in the face of them?

Dr. Matthew McKay  24:28

Right. And we think here are the pains are bad. I mean, it’s certainly hard. Yes. We think oh, no, if I have pain, I’m failing in some way. I’m screwing up. I shouldn’t. I shouldn’t have pain and people who are full of pain and struggle. There’s something wrong with that. You know, success at life is not having pain and feeling good most of the time. Yeah. And that’s the pleasure pain agenda with that people really get caught in you know, I gotta get rid of pain. And I got to maximize my enjoyment and pleasure in life and so on actually very different from that. And as far as what Jordan is telling me, that the pain is, provides the most important lessons that we have actually come here to encounter. And to learn. Yeah. And, and so the pain is not a sign of failure, it’s an opportunity, right? Something important.

Kristin Taylor  25:22

Right, I so see that in my own life, I absolutely seen that. That’s where there’s been transformation. Right? For me, and I share this with my listeners. I am a caregiver for my mother with dementia. And it was a difficult upbringing, there was abandonment, there was neglect, there was trauma, and learning to show up for her. And face that resentment and learning how to forgive has been one of the most spiritually transformative things in the world for me, and it is hard more days, and it’s not. But it is the lesson. And the lesson is love.

Dr. Matthew McKay  26:01

And that’s such a beautiful example. Think of all the barriers that are showing up I mean, the kinds of pain there’s, there’s the history and trauma and pain in your life. There’s a way your mother’s acting now, that’s problematic, I’m sure and, and requiring a lot of attention and effort. And, and there’s the ways that it deprives you of other experiences because of your commitment to take care of her. I mean, so there’s a there’s a lot of pain involved in this in this commitment, but it isn’t. But it is pain in the face that we are loving and acting on love in the face of that pain, which is our work here. And so it’s really a beautiful example.

Kristin Taylor  26:46

Yeah, thank you. And thank you for summarizing it in a way that adds that level of coherence to what you’re what you’re sharing. I would love if you would go on to share a bit more about the soul, the nature of the soul, reincarnation to help us understand in the context of showing up courageously to love in the face of pain.

Dr. Matthew McKay  27:11

Okay, well, first of all, I’d like to frame this by saying that our, our ideas about the the afterlife and why we come here are really according to germ free three wrong, I mean, that we come here to be judged and found worthy of Heaven or, or failing in, in, in life and going to hell, this idea that we show up here to be judged and evaluated on our worthiness for some kind of lovely afterlife is not true. I’m just I’m just gonna say that categorically, it is not true. And so why do we come here and, and the and the other thing that’s so unfortunate about this idea is that you have one shot at it. And if you screw up your, your cook your you go to the hot place. And it’s is it’s just not effectiveness. You know, think of how unfair it is, if you had one difficult life, and somehow you messed it up. And now you’re going to have an eternity of pain makes no sense at all. So what we now no and what practically every medium reports is that souls have multiple lives, that they come here, and they may go to other planets as well. But they, they usually have a preferred planet that they incarnate to, they come over and over again, sometimes in many cases hundreds of times. Because learning and growing is a long process. And we have many, many lives in which to learn many lessons. So of course, our the overall lesson is how to learn in the face of how to love in the face of pain, but you’re all we have individual lesson plans have souls. And and we’ve made it may take us a number of lives to learn a particular lesson. For example, a soul may be working on courage, you know that, that there they shrink away from, you know, difficult or challenging or scary moments. And, and they may have a number of lives in which they face these challenges and learn how to grow courage. This is kind of an example of an individual lesson plan for a particular so, you know, a soul might have a pattern of withdrawing in the face of relationship issues, instead of kind of trying to figure out, you know, how can I go deeper into this love as opposed to withdrawing and getting away from it. And that that might be a pattern that they work on for a number of lives. So there are individual lesson plans. And then there’s this overarching lesson of loving with all of the challenges, difficulty and pain. So we come here for many, many lifetimes to learn these lessons. And we don’t this there’s no failure We go back, we evaluate what happened. I mean, there’s there’s a whole process in the afterlife I don’t know if you want to talk about that the first steps in the afterlife is the life review. With some near death experiences have a little get a little piece of as, as they just kind of enter the spirit world for a little bit. The life review is really powerful experience. But as part of as part of the learning how to do it just digest everything that I experienced in this precious life that I just had. And Jordan describes it as as almost like a profound meditation in which every single significant interaction or experience in that life is reviewed. But here’s the interesting thing about life review, just for what it’s worth, is that we don’t just review the experiences from our own point of view, we experienced all of our interactions, from both sides, from ourselves, and what we were experiencing, but also what the other person experiences, everything that we’ve done in our lives, we’re going to experience it as the other person felt it and experienced it. And not only at that moment, but its effect over time. So a father, for example, that slaps his son is going to in the life review is going to experience that slap as he initiated it in his anger and whatever is going on for him. He’s going to experience it has his son took it in and felt it. But not just at that moment. But how that slab reverberated in terms of his son self esteem, sense of worth, what the sun became afraid of, with the sun started to avoid all of the impacts of that slap, at the moment and over a whole lifetime, are extraneous. So you can see the life review is incredibly profound way of learning?

Kristin Taylor  31:55

Well, I imagine people as they hear that kind of shuttering. And I think that’s really important to emphasize. It’s not from judgment, but it’s from understanding and learning. So no one is sitting there going you terrible father, how dare you look what you did. It’s from a place of understand when we do this, when you did this, this is the impact it had. But it’s not saying you are now punished.

Dr. Matthew McKay  32:25

You are loved by all the guides, and the people that are around you, supporting you through this life review process, and not as a failed or flawed soul, but as a soul in the midst of a learning experience. And that this life review is a very important part of that learning experience way of making very concrete and and deeply felt and held the awareness of what that life was about and what each choice was about, and how each choice had certain impacts and effects.

Kristin Taylor  33:00

Yes, that is. So I say this every time I talk with someone who is sharing information that is compelling and fascinating as what you’re sharing. And it’s so hard for us to forgive ourselves here on earth, when someone has done a lot of harm when they were here. Is it easier for them with this committee of souls to gain access to self forgiveness? Or is that even? Like, can you weigh in on that? Can you share?

Dr. Matthew McKay  33:32

Yeah, so one of the things that I’m the Jordan tells me about the afterlife is that there’s kind of an, an ante room to the afterlife, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s called a landing place, and we go there, to kind of get acclimated to not having a body to, you know, to not walking from place to place and, and, and having awareness and three 360 degrees and, and that whatever we think about can actually show up as an image it can actually act we can actually project images of things we think about. So we have to get used to a lot of different experiences without a body and a nervous system and so forth. And so in that, but, but in order to actually matriculate into the spirit world proper. We have to kind of go in there without a lot of residual pain and emotionality from from the live just live life so for example if we still have a lot of anger at people and we’re like really, you know, we haven’t resolved you know, some relationships and we have, you know, feelings of hurt or revenge or you know, profound sadness, grief or, or a lot of fear. These emotions have to be worked through before we get into the spirit world and So there are places of healing where were souls who have had, you know, difficult life painful lives and are carrying a lot of residual emotion can be healed and, and their soul energy and restored. There are there are Bardot’s where people can go and actually live out certain scenarios to help help resolve some of the emotions and the pain that they have not fully integrated and are not ready to enter the spirit world. So there is no hell there is no purgatory, but there, but there are places where additional learning has to take place to resolve some of the unresolved experiences that that may follow us into the immediate post life experience. So that it’s all love. It’s all done with love. It’s all guys are helping us every step of the way. But we have to get to a point where we can enter the spirit world without all of these damaging emotions. And, and motivations and intentions.

Kristin Taylor  36:04

Yeah, so that so the spirit world. And I love this idea of metric matriculation? And how you describe that? What are they doing over there? I mean, does what does it look like? What does it feel like? Are do they sleep? Do they eat? Like, what is he telling you about what that world looks like? And it’s like?

Dr. Matthew McKay  36:21

Well, the spirit world is your oyster, there’s so many things we can say about it. First of all, where we spend most of our time in the spirit world is with our soul. And a soul group is like a little spiritual family, it’s our immediate group, we as when souls come into an existence come into existence, they they are kind of given a group of souls who also started their existence about the same time. And, and they tend to,you know, incarnate at the same time, and they actually usually incarnate in the same place, and they’ll have different relationships to each other when they incarnate, you know, so somebody in your soul group might be your, your romantic partner, and one life it might be, you know, your brother and another life, it might be an adversary that you struggle with in another life. And so it’s like a little Repertory Theater. So the soul group will tend to incarnate together in different relationships and different opportunities to learn together. And so the soul group is sort of that that’s the core unit of what this the after life is made up. And then around each soul group there are there are other soul groups. So you can think of them as a Venn diagram, where they were, they were, there’s, there’s kind of a interlacing of relationships. So there’s, you know, so you can think of about it, like a neighborhood, you know, so there’s the house you live in with your soul group. And then there’s the neighbors around, there are nearby cell groups, that you often will also incarnate with some of those people, and you have fairly deep relationships. And then there are people farther and farther away, that you may only occasionally ever meet or may never encounter. But that is where we do most of our learning in the soul group. And each soul group has guides that are supporting and helping that group and, and so you might think of a soul group, as as a as a kind of a classroom and the guides as teachers. And so we do spend quite a bit of our time learning in the afterlife and and there’s all kinds of things that we may actually be working on, and learning but some of the things we learned is about the nature of cause and effect. Souls actually spent a lot of time reviewing the Akashic Record, Akashic Record is basically the record of everything that’s ever happened in history, you know, every choice everybody’s ever made. And so, you can go into the Akashic Record, almost look at look at it, like a video. And you if you want to see, you know, you know, how someone made a particular choice. And what happened afterwards, you can you can actually watch the whole chain of cause and effect from from each choice and you can study your own life. And you can study other lives and historical figures and events from the same perspective of learning how each choice has certain ramifications and outcomes. And I guess that’s one of the things that I’m I’m wanting to emphasize is that you know, a lot of our work is to learn how to make choices based on love. And and, you know, of course, we make choices based on all kinds that we have all kinds of navigation principles, folks come here and they make choices based on pleasure and pain, they make choices based on you know, what will make me famous, what will make me powerful? What will get me sexual pleasure, what do I mean? So, we have all kinds of navigation principles that we we use use. But our work is to learn to navigate and make choices from, you know, rules, you know, small individual choices about, you know how you greet somebody, when you walk into work, to how you again, I trusted them, what we talk about how you respond to a partner who’s telling you they’re really concerned and hurting in the relationship. All these choices on big and small are showing up all through our days all through our lives. And our work is to find out how to make those choices based on love. So that’s so in the afterlife, we’re doing a lot of review of the asset of the Akashic Record, in order to see how that works. You know, what happens when you make a choice based on some sort of selfish intent? Versus love? What are the what are the ramifications for that? What what happens in people’s lives when you do that, and you can view all of that. So all of this has been like, also souls in the afterlife often have spiritual careers. So some souls are learning to be guides, some souls are learning to be healers, some some souls are actually learning science to make to make a new and better universe on the next time round. I mean, it’s extraordinary. Souls are learning to create things. And so souls are, are learning a lot, but both, you know, in terms of their own lives, and what you know, in their own choices, but also how to do important tasks, and be of service in ways that will help others.

Kristin Taylor  41:39

So that is so fascinating to me. And it really casts a strong lens on. When we look at whether it’s the Holocaust, or we’re looking at what Putin is doing, you got these souls that are doing such harm, and they’re doing the opposite of in the face of pain, moving towards love, they’re actively causing harm, and we look at what’s going on with a climate crisis. Does this Jordan have anything to say about that? Does that mean there are so many young souls? Or how do we find our way through this, if we are aware of this, and we want to move in that direction?

Dr. Matthew McKay  42:20

Well, one of the things is happening is that there are a lot of older and more experienced souls that are showing up on earth now. And they are coming specifically to, you know, to tip us into another meme. You know, by meme, I’m saying, you know, how we how we organize our lives. You know, right now we’re in a tribal meme from much of the you know, you can see tribalism everywhere. And tribalism is very selfish. It’s like, you know, I get mine and to hell with you. Yeah. And if you’re different from me, you’re an enemy. You’re basically bad, you know, vision of the world tribalism, you know, fundamentalist religion, all of this stuff is very tribalistic. And there’s wars, you know, derived from it, you know, from this good, bad idea that, Oh, those are the bad people, we can we can kill them. That’s fine. And Putin is a perfect example. We can kill, you know, Ukrainians, that’s okay. They don’t they are not people. They don’t count. They don’t they don’t mean anything. Yes. And so you know, that good, bad, tribalistic view of things. We’re moving beyond that now. And there are a lot of souls coming in, we’re pretty advanced. And one of the things that Jordan is working on is something called the laws of change. And it’s, it’s, you know, there are souls in the afterlife, or in the spirit world, we’re learning how to influence opinion on a mass level. And, and, and so we’re seeing that, you know, some of the various extraordinary changes that are happening now, if they could think of a gay marriage, I mean, it’s probably 10 years that completely tipped, and that has something to do with souls that are coming in who are who know how to create mass change, the climate change processes is accelerating, because there are souls that are very involved, not just climate change, but protecting the earth in general of souls who were very involved and have knowledge of mass change, and how to change perspectives and understandings on a mass level. So that is happening. And we’re shifting out of the meme of tribalism into we’re all in this together, you know, into into a meme of greater sense of oneness. But that takes time. And you know, there is a real push from the spirit world. Thank God bring souls in here to do it.

Kristin Taylor  44:42

You know, it’s interesting. So that’s probably one of the most hopeful things I’ve heard in a long time. So thank you. Thank you, Jordan. Thank you spirit guides for sending that message. And then I said, thank God. Tell me about what they say about God. What is God?

Dr. Matthew McKay  44:56

So okay, so God is not a guy in a white beard. You And, and he, you know the idea of God as a person. And having a personality, you know, an all powerful person, personality is just not the case, according to Jordan, there is a God if we can call it that. And Jordan prefers to use the word all, because all of consciousness is God, all of consciousness, and we are part of a weird, God, there’s not God, and then there’s us, and God has taken care of us or loved us, or whatever we are God, we are part of the consciousness of all. And that’s one of the things we’re moving toward learning here that we are all part of one thing, but we remain individuals, we remain individuals with individual lessons with individual personalities, and individual and knowledge that we are gaining. But by the way, everything we learn, we upload all. So every single thing that we learn in the course of our lives, is uploaded, and becomes part of the knowledge of God for all God is evolving to in the same way we are. See, this is the idea that a perfect God, no, it just made us for you know, because he was bored, some died someday inside the planets and some people, that’s just not true. And God is very specifically made souls to interact with a physical environment and learn things that God could not learn, it’s gonna be as kind of a funny example would be like, you know, a dad making a play house for his little girl. But he can’t get in there, see what it is, he can’t actually experience it in the same way. And because his consciousness is too big to get in there, and so she has to go in and tell them what it’s like to be in that play house, and what kind of experiences she has. So we were created to interact, and learn things, and bring all of what we learned back to the whole back to God back to collective consciousness at all, whatever we want to call it, the divine. And our job is to learn and to help. And as we evolve, God evolves. And so God is not perfect, God is still learning, we’re keen to continue to learn forever. And we are helping in that. And it’s a very sacred mission that we have. Everything we learn, increases the dimension of godness. And ends and our life has great purpose. Even though we have enormous power, that pain and loss that we face, our life is Grace purpose, because everything we are learning is being learned and held by God.

Kristin Taylor  47:54

That’s so powerful. That’s so powerful. Which leads me to my next question, because we can become so distracted, we can become so focused on what can be purpose less, whether it’s competition, or, you know, trying to compare ourselves with other people gain money for the sake of getting money, man, I could go on and on and on. Can you say a little bit about how to live a more purposeful life? And I think you’ve already answered a lot of that, perhaps is reiterating what you’re saying, versus when we get caught in illusion or get distracted?

Dr. Matthew McKay  48:34

Well, a couple of things. One is every mistake, we make his fault. I know that sounds absurd. But actually, we’re learning from the mistakes. I mean, so everything we do, even if it’s something that’s that doesn’t make sense, or it hurts someone, or it, it ends in some sort of failure or disaster, or some outcome that isn’t very efficacious. It’s okay. It’s, I mean, it’s not good or bad. It’s just opportunities to learn. And so every mistake is fine. It’s an opportunity to learn, it’s not failure. It’s all learning, you know, because, you know, we learn as much from our mistakes as we do, from our moments, when we actually do something that works, that works well, well, whatever happens, we’re learning from it. So I guess I just wanted to emphasize that but in terms of, you know, how to get in touch with life purpose. One of the things that I really suggest to people is to you know, develop something called a morning intention. And, and so, the morning intention is kind of loose, a simple little meditation where you do a little bit of pasta meditation, focus on your breath, you know, quiet your mind a little bit and then you you project yourself forward into your day, with the full intention that every moment of choice, you’re going to bring love to that moment choice all through the day, there will be choices. And most of them have to do with our interactions with other people in every one of these interactions, and every moment, they’re going to be choices. And, and, and the morning intention is in every moment of choice, I will be loved. Every moment of choice, I will be loved, and to enter the day with that intention. And, and with that, and with that meditation, you know, kind of committing yourself, first of all, paying attention to those moments when they show up. And secondly, noticing what the choice is, you know, because a lot of times we’re driven by our emotions, our emotions make us want to do things, you know, when you’re anxious, you want to withdraw or avoid when you’re, when you’re depressed. You want to withdraw when you’re angry, you want to attack, you know, I mean, our emotions kind of drive us to do things. So am I at this moment where I have this strong emotion? Am I going to act on the emotion? Or I’m going to act on love? And those choices show up over and over again? Yes, they do throughout our day. And so I think one of the ways that we can really get on track in terms of life purpose, is to get clear, what is what is it that we want to be? Who do we want to be? How do we want to show up in our life, to everyone and to ourselves? Now we can make choices about ourselves that have to do with love, you know, when am I going to take care of myself and eat something that is healthy for me? Or am I going to not take care of myself. So acting on love may actually be self care and as well as caring for others. So I think this is really important is to get clear, what is what do we want to be? How do we want to show and then make sure that we start every day with the intention to bring that value that into that intention, into every moment of choice?

Kristin Taylor  51:58

Yes, and just to echo what I hear you saying, because this happens so much to myself, and to all of us really, is that we are going to mess up, we are going to lose our temper, we are going to retreat, we’re going to be depressed, we’re going to have all of those things that you mentioned. And much like in the spirit world, where they see it as a learning and a place of love, that we have the opportunity to do that. When we don’t come from love, we can still love ourselves, that’s part of the learning..

Dr. Matthew McKay  52:28

And pay attention. But what happened when I you know, let’s go back to our example of, you know, the parent that comes home from a bad day, and anxious to and, and, and exhausted, and their child needs something. And, and they just get irritated and say something kind of hurtful to the child? Well, if that parent is paying attention, they’ll notice how that affected their child. And they may actually make a decision, wait, wait a minute, I can’t let that happened. Again, I want to act, I love my job. I really, you know, my exhaustion gotten away. But I am not going to do that. Tomorrow, I’m going to do something there. So paying attention to the outcomes and the impacts of our choices is an important way of learning. And yes, and moving from there to something else. To a different getting low. Back in our lives.

Kristin Taylor  53:26

Yes. And if there’s been generational trauma, learning how to heal getting help, understanding the conditioning that we were raised with, and knowing.

Dr. Matthew McKay  53:38

I had a client tell me a story recently, and the issues are tremendous trauma in our own life and struggle and, and, and, you know, having a moment with her own child, where she noticed that she was happy that her child had been heard that she’s hurt her child to serve felt happy about it, you know, kind of triumphant like, you know, God punished them you know, blow and, and right and she got a sick feeling in your stomach is like, and the more she thought about it, the more she realized, oh my god, uh, you know, I’m enacting what happened to me. And I can’t do that. I cannot do that to my child, I can’t do to my job, what was done to me and that awareness and seeing the consequences and also seeing that feeling inside of her like that almost that that that happiness at hurting profoundly changed her right. And she made the the decision and the and, and the intention at that moment that I will not do that again. And this is how we learn from mistakes. And so the fact that she acted hurtfully to her child is an opportunity to learn not something to feel, you know, content maynardville

Kristin Taylor  55:00

Yeah to go into shame so that it stifles us and keeps us in a pattern of self hatred, which then perpetuates the proclivity to harm a child. Yes, yes. Well, there is so much that we could talk about for hours. I just want to thank you so much, Matt, for what you have shared. And my hope is that this like I said, from the beginning, and how I framed it, that it will spur people to seek this level of understanding so that they can in the face of pain move towards greater access to love. How can they learn more about you and Jordans wisdom? Can you point the direction?

Dr. Matthew McKay  55:39

Well, there’s a little website seekingjordan.com But I mean, I have to say that you know, a lot of Jordans wisdom is in the book you mentioned Luminous Landscape of the Afterlife. And, and one that came out a little later, which is called Loving the Time of Impermanence. So there’s a lot of wisdom in the original story about how I connected to Jordan and found him again, is in a book called seeking Jordan.

Kristin Taylor  56:07

So good. This was one of the most meaningful conversations truly I’ve ever had. And it means so much to me that you took the time. Thank you very much.

Dr. Matthew McKay  56:18

Thank you so much.

Kristin Taylor  56:21

What an extraordinary story. Remarkable, whether we are grieving a loved one or coming to terms with the inevitability of our own death one day, these messages are wants to take to heart. Thank you, Matt. And of course, thank you, Jordan. If you are enjoying these podcasts, I ask that you share them. We need your help in getting these important episodes out there. sound engineering for today’s show was provided by Shane Suffriti. To learn more about Shane, please visit shanesuffriti.com. If you are looking to increase your own wellness, reduce your anxiety, or deepen your own personal or spiritual awareness. These are the areas I specialize in as a coach and would love to explore working with you to please reach out to me at CoachKristin Taylor@gmail.com. Thank you for listening and we’ll see you next time on How I Made It Through.


How I made it through is produced and distributed by EIQ media LLC. Elevate your emotional IQ with podcasts and content focused on overcoming adversity, leadership, mental health, entrepreneurship, spiritually transformative experiences and more.