Melissa Chureau: [00:00:00] The Fully Mindful podcast explores what it is to be fully mindful and present in our everyday lives. Uncover our worth and discover our purposes. I am Melissa Shiro, the host of the Fully Mindful. I’m a neurodivergent lawyer, mindfulness teacher, and embodiment and breathwork coach. On the fully mindful, I interview inspiring creatives, wellness leaders, and social disruptors about how they have discovered their purpose or purposes and live a mindful and connected life.
Every other episode. I also offer mindfulness and somatic practices that work for everyday people doing everyday things. So that we can thrive and be present for the people and causes we care the most about. Find me at the fully mindful on all the places that you listen to your podcasts.
Richard Martini: we only bring a portion of who we are to a lifetime. So the other, the rest of me is always back home or your higher [00:01:00] self.

Kristin Taylor: Today’s guest again is Richard Martini, an award-winning American film director, producer, screenwriter, and freelance journalist. Rich has made quite a name for himself in researching the afterlife or what he refers to as the flip side. Just Google him and gain access to any of his many books and documentaries on the flip side, or tune in as I do to an episode of his podcast, hacking The Afterlife with Jennifer Schafer.
I. Today we will be talking about his latest book, the Greatest Story Never Told As Told by Jesus and those Who Knew Him. I listen to his book on audible and cannot endorse it more highly to those who are both of these things, both curious and open-minded, as [00:02:00] I consider these two necessary prerequisites for this book.
What is revealed is so enthralling and captivating, and as rich would say, Mind bending today, we’re gonna start at the beginning, both for Richard in the book and yes for Jesus. The introduction is called Flex of Gold. So that’s what we will start, and then we will be diving into chapter one. Called The Breath of Cows, which is an account of Jesus’ birth from someone speaking to his mother Mary.
There’s that book. It’s so great to have you back, Richard, once again. Welcome.
Richard Martini: I, I just got this in the mail today. You know, they sent me a proof before, and I gotta say it, this is a pretty one. I, I really, I’m enjoying it. Um,
Kristin Taylor: Yes.
Richard Martini: I had them make it a cream interior, so it just, it kind of reads easier. It’s easier on the eyes. Anyway, for those who read, eh, not many people read these days. So flex of gold. [00:03:00] It’s a great question and it reminds me of that sting song, uh, fields of Gold,
Kristin Taylor: Mm-hmm.
Richard Martini: song.
Um, and so how it came about was, and you know, really sort of rolling back to why Jesus, what’s he doing here? And it, it really started with, um, the, the story was a friend of mine. Uh, had lost her mother recently and was very sort of beyond herself with grief, and I stopped, ran into her in the street.
She was just sobbing. And I said, you know, I think maybe hypnotherapy might help you. And she was like, well, what are you talking about? What’s that? And said, well, you know, I’ve, I’ve been filming people. At that point, I think I filmed about a dozen people who had, um, in fact, the first book Flip Side was finished.
But because of the, what happened with her, I squeezed that into the book. But basically, [00:04:00] uh, I said, you know what people do is they talk to a hypnotherapist who then walks them and sometimes they see loved ones who’ve passed away. So I thought, why not? Let’s try it. So she was like, I have to do this tomorrow.
So, uh, Scott Deville, uh, light between, um, hypnotherapist trained by Michael Newton, came out to Santa Monica, but the night before, We were on the phone talking about what I had been about flip side, the research. And it just popped into my head how the president of the Newton Institute at the time, Paul Orand, when I did his interview, uh, I said so, ’cause he had done a very dramatic thing and it’s in, it’s in the movie and the book Flip side where a woman recalls expiring in Auschwitz.
And it’s very dramatic and very hard to sort of wrap one’s mind around. And so I’m interviewing this. Hypnotherapist he’d been for many years, and here he was president of the Newton Institute. [00:05:00] And I said, so do you get a lot of people from, uh, who remember a lifetime where they died in the Holocaust?
Just a, you know, maybe there’s something connected there. He said, no, actually, I get a lot of people who remember Jesus. And I said, what do you mean? He said, well, they remember a lifetime with him, or they remember a lifetime where he was profoundly influential in their journey. And instantly I thought, jaded Hollywood guy that I am, I said, well, has anybody described him?
You know, what does he look like? Because, you know, that was, that’s always of been a bugaboo. You know, what color is his skin and what’d he look like? And he laughed and said, ah, you know, it never came up. I never asked. And subsequently, I just saw this, uh, factoid the other day, which is that in near death experiences, a study done by Dr.
Emily Kelly, university of Virginia. Uh, of, I think it was like 2000 near death experiences. 11% [00:06:00] of people who saw someone on the other side during their near death event saw Jesus. So just as a dataset, what are these people seeing? That’s the question. So Scott and I were on the telephone, we’re just talking about how weird that was.
So the next day my friend does this, uh, hypnotherapy session, she. Quickly sees her mother and has a conversation with her. Um, mother says new information to her, stuff that could only come from her mother helped her. And at some point Scott was saying, well, let’s go to a previous lifetime that has some, some significance to this one.
And she’s, as the process is, they go back in time, where are we? Uh, what do you see yourself? She saw herself as a young girl like a gypsy living in Jerusalem. And the year was 18. Now Scott said 18 something or something, [00:07:00] 18. And she said, I don’t, I’m just getting the number 18 when you ask me when. And I’m like, 18 in Jerusalem.
So I quickly grabbed my, you know, uh, piece of three by whatever, three by five, post it. And I say, ask her if she’s ever seen Jesus. And of course, hypnotherapist don’t really. Worked that way. He looks at the note and then about 20 minutes later he slips in. So, did you ever go outside and see people speak?
And she froze and tears started coming outta her eyes and her face turned beet red. And she said, I’m standing 10 feet away from Jesus. And you know, as a observer, I’m, I’m just filming. And Scott then goes and asks the que, what’s he talking about? He’s talking about love. Unconditional love. He’s talk and, and she says, I, there’s just something radiating from him.
It’s so powerful. It, I can’t [00:08:00] breathe. Uh, but it’s just unconditional love. I can feel it. And, and so I’m writing another note, ask what he looks like. And so she then goes into this very detailed description of the color of his skin, uh, which was sort of a mix between. European and of the region, a mix. Um, that his hair was a certain length.
He didn’t have a beard at this point, which she’s seeing him, I mean, other people say he does. Um, and it, but then it, the question was what was eyes look like? What color are his eyes? And she said, they’re brown. They’re like a deep, rich brown. But there’s a weird color inside of them, and it’s like there are flecks of gold.
Kristin Taylor: Hmm.
Richard Martini: That’s a very odd detail and
Very specific.
And, um, and so then, you know, and so look as [00:09:00] anybody observing something very unusual, mind bending, um, you just have to set it aside. Like, okay, this person saw this person and maybe somebody else will see something else we don’t know. But that started this sort of journey, uh, and it was, that was about 2008 or oh nine and over the next 10, uh, 15 years that it’s been, he shows up quite often and with people who are skeptics with people who are atheists, with people who are of other religions.
They, he, he doesn’t show up by himself often. It’s usually when there’s a group of people, like a council. My last book, divine Counsels in the Afterlife. Sometimes people say, you know, I’m looking at my counsel and there’s Jesus, and of course I always ask, how do you know it’s Jesus? Is he wearing a name tag?
It’s a simple
Kristin Taylor: Yeah.
Richard Martini: just go, no, I know it’s him. I, I have, and then I’ll ask, did you know him [00:10:00] in his lifetime as geez, sometimes they say, no, I only know him from here. Sometimes they say, yeah, he was there. And then I ask them details about. Their journey and somewhere along the line, uh, the former president of Paramount Pictures, David Kirkpatrick, reached out to me and said, um, I think you should write a book about these accounts, but put ’em in chronological order from the beginning.
The first people who claimed, you know, the different people that I’m speaking to, were talking about knowing him at different times in his life. One was. Early one was his middle years. Couple were in the middle years. Some were, uh, people who had met him on his path. Some people met him when he was traveling and preaching.
Uh, and then quite a few. And I can only tell you that they come from all over the planet. The, the knock on my door, I get a call from a [00:11:00] fellow from India. And he’s visiting relatives here, and he says, I’ve read your book and I, I need to talk to you. I know that you mentioned that some people have seen Jesus.
Okay, so we go and have coffee and he, he weaves this incredible story of sort of constantly having these dreams about those events and then doing a hypnotherapy session and being very specific about a memory of who he was. Yeah, and he’s a, uh, a very successful real estate guy in India, and he’s very prone to giving details in very specific way.
He also writes for, uh, the Times of India, you know, as a journalist. And so every detail that he gave me, I was able to sort of, you know, sort of identify, let’s say the names still. That doesn’t mean that somebody was that person. It only becomes very unusual when somebody else says, I saw you there. No, but wonderful example is, [00:12:00] uh, Dr.
Brian Weiss, the author of Many Lives, many Masters. He’s, he’s done a number of books. He’s had 4,000 cases, former Yale psychiatrist, not former, I mean, you know, it’s his background. Um, and he’s a wonderful writer. But at some, it’s, this thing jumped out at me in his, I mentioned it in the book, jumped out at me in his, I think it was a stirred book.
He was doing a session with a client and the client’s remembering being at the time of Jesus and being on the Via de la Rosa, watching Jesus walk up, you know, ostensibly to his crucifixion, but the client says suddenly, and you were there. Dr. Weiss, I’m seeing you, you’re standing with this, uh, wardrobe on toga with orange piping.
I think that was the exact. Piping, you know, unusual
detail. And Dr. Weiss said, I [00:13:00] never told anybody that I had had a past life regression. And during that regression I felt like I knew Jesus, almost like a colleague, because he said he had him over to his house. He was like a wealthy teacher or something.
Uh, and he had Jesus over to his house and they had long conversations. About the nature of reality, about life, et cetera, et cetera. And he never told anybody this detail, but he did recall the orange piping of the toga that he used to wear. And so he mentions that. And so, you know, it’s a, it’s a different level of evidentiary kind of reality when somebody says the same thing, but, and so then I started using the flex of gold as a paradigm.
When I’d ask somebody, you’re seeing Jesus to describe his eyes, and sometimes they’d go, uh, I’ve had a few people say, oh, they’re blue. I go, okay, now take a, go really close. [00:14:00] And then they’ll say, oh, I’m sorry, they’re brown. And then, is there any other color in there I’m seeing, I’m seeing streaks of gold and light.
Gold, and sometimes they use the word flex. I, you know, I’ve never used flex in a sentence.
Kristin Taylor: Yeah. Yeah. Well, let me, let me slow this down because I am fully tracking with you because I’ve read your books and watched your documentaries and listened to you frequently. Um, some of our listeners, I’m sure have listened to every episode you’ve been on, so they’re tracking as well. But for those who may be tuning in for the first time, just to clarify, your research is, Filming people who are under hypnosis.
And when you refer to the Newton Institute, it is Michael Newton who took people not just to pass lives, but to lives between lives. In addition to that, right? And as well for this book, you also interview [00:15:00] medium psychic mediums well, who are also sharing information where you’re like the same. Themes, same words, same messages, the orange piping, these things that are like, that would be incredibly bizarre for that to be a coincidence. And what I love that you’re saying is like, I am not proselytizing. I’m not saying you must believe this. Here simply is the research.
Richard Martini: This is what people are saying and, and, and so, you know. Yes. And, uh, thank you for clarifying that. So, I, I started with the hypnotherapy methodology mainly because, uh, as we’ve spoken in other podcasts, my friend passed away in my arms and then started visiting me. And she, but before she had died, she talked about being in a classroom in another universe where everyone was speaking about spirituality and somehow they were speaking a language she’d never heard before.
But somehow she totally understood it. And then when I, some years [00:16:00] later, I stumbled upon Michael Newton’s book, journey of Souls, where there was an account identical to what she said. And I thought, oh, well this is interesting. Maybe I should make a documentary about this guy Partially. To show that it wasn’t accurate or was I, I I had no opinion.
It either was or it wasn’t. And I, the camera, I know the camera, it shows a lot. You know, when somebody says, oh no, you can’t film that. You know that there’s a reason for that. So I started with that and I, and Paul Orin, who I mentioned a minute ago, uh, I was surprise when he said, yeah, bring your cameras in.
We’re doing a workshop, you know, a, a teaching workshop in Chicago, and you’re welcome. Didn’t tell me what to shoot. He just asked for a copy. Uh, you know, once I was done knowing full well that I would be as startled as I would be, and I went there with a kind of, um, I don’t know what’s going on, are they leading people?
Like, what’s happening? So [00:17:00] I filmed a dozen people under what, you know, they call Steve Hypnosis it, it doesn’t matter. I also found that Dr. Womba, uh, You know, you’re research, I’m researching this. So it turns out that Dr. Womba, uh, clinical psychologist from the University of, um, the J F K University, she was doing studies 10 years before Michael Newton and having the identical results
access accessing people about.
Now, she, I don’t, I don’t recall her in her data, her talking about specific avatars. She might’ve characterized them as people seeing avatars. Um, and then I, so the thing about data, data in order to become data has to be consistent and reproducible. So that would mean that if a person is having a near death experience and what they describe should on many levels, lease the same hallmarks of somebody under [00:18:00] hypnosis, accessing a previous lifetime or events or back home or the between lives realm, let’s call it that.
It is interesting. I ki uh, that is a term that Michael Newton coined and it, it implies that that’s a different life than our life. But what I’ve learned from, and it’s in his research, which is people report, we have, we’re, we’re conscious and aware and exist prior to any incarnation that we plan our lifetimes with the help of teachers and guides and council members.
And we only bring a portion of who we are to a lifetime. So the other, the rest of me is always back home or your higher self. So it’s not that that’s a between life thing, it’s always existing.
The, the onstage things are the lives that kind of, yeah. You know, curtain comes down, eh, not so great. Let’s try that again,
Kristin Taylor: Yes. [00:19:00] I really appreciate that distinction.
Richard Martini: but going back to your point, which is. Which is that. So now it, I’m using hypnotherapy and then I, um, we were talking about on the podcast yesterday, medium approached me outta the blue and said, I’m a big fan of your work. And I was like, okay, a psychic, is that what you’re doing? You know, I, it’s not my cup of tea because I’m, I’m aware that the, that the future doesn’t exist yet.
There’s likely outcomes and people on the other side have a good viewpoint, but, This idea of predicting always was a problem for me to wrap my mind around. And so I was, I was putting her off basically
saying, yeah, that’s great. You know, not my cup of tea. And then I realized I was resisting listening to what she was saying and I just said, well, what is it you do?
And she said, well, I work with law enforcement on a daily basis to help them with, you know, cases. And I thought, okay, well that’s something that’s evidentiary. Um, Well, why don’t we have a meeting? And so I took my camera down to Jennifer [00:20:00] Schafer’s office and, uh, we had a, and it’s in the book, uh, hacking the Afterlife, where we had a wide ranging discussion, not only with friends of mine who had passed away, bill Paxton, but also a, a topic that I had been researching for 30 years, Amelia Earhart.
And then at some point within this conversation, she stopped breathing cheeks, turned bright red, started crying. And said, Jesus is here. Now. I’m over on my, you know, I’m across the room and my camera looking around really, like, I don’t really see him. Okay, what are you, what are you seeing? And, and then the question is, you know, is he wearing a name tag?
And then it’s, and then I actually made a point of challenging this reality, not challenging him. That’s not fair. But it is a challenge, and my challenge was, let, can I ask him a question [00:21:00] directly, one to one? And she said, he says, yes. Okay. The door has opened. And I said, can I ask you why is it that everyone I filmed?
And by that point, I had three people who claimed to have seen him, all of ’em had the same reaction, couldn’t breathe cheeks, turned red, eyes crying, gasping for breath. I said, why are you doing that? What’s the matter with you?
Kristin Taylor: What’s the matter with you?
Richard Martini: Why are you making these people sick? It’s a challenge, and the idea is I’m challenging the person who’s saying it to see if they’re gonna defend it on a religious basis. He’s the Prince of Peace or something. I don’t know. I just thought, well, let’s just see what he says and his answer was, I brought more of source to this lifetime.
Kristin Taylor: Hmm.
Richard Martini: And that’s why when people are near me, they feel that unconditional [00:22:00] love and that’s the reaction they have. Unconditional love is overwhelming.
Kristin Taylor: Yeah,
Richard Martini: I thought, wow, what a brilliant answer.
Kristin Taylor: Yeah.
Richard Martini: And then I said, not so much with the Romans, and Jennifer said, He’s laughing. I don’t understand what you just asked or just said, but he’s laughing and I thought, okay, this is really mind bending.
she doesn’t
Kristin Taylor: didn’t get it. I love that she didn’t get it.
Richard Martini: She didn’t get it. He did. He thought that was funny. You know, because if, if you’re walking around with all this unconditional love, why would anybody beat the guy up
Kristin Taylor: exactly. No, I get it. But I love that she didn’t get it ’cause it to me, that’s a distinction.
Richard Martini: and for me it’s new information. This is a, this is a persona, clearly somebody who has a sense of humor and since then he, he, and so I’ve talked with him again, I’m not seeing him.
I don’t hear him, [00:23:00] but I’m talking to people who are seeing him and he is always making fun of me or always has something. I just, the last time I spoke to him, Uh, it’s weird to say, you know, the last time I spoke to somebody who said they were seeing him, I always ask him this question usually because they’re kind of overall, how could you not be?
They’re seeing him very strange and I say, could you ask him to change into something that’s more conducive to a conversation? And they go, it’s so weird as you started to say that, he just changed into jeans and a t-shirt, but he always changes into jeans and a t-shirt.
Kristin Taylor: Well, yeah, so that’s something that, you know, if I’m a. Skeptic and I say to any person I see on the street and I say, imagine someone in something casual. What are they wearing? They would probably say Jeans and a t-shirt.
Richard Martini: some could. I agree with you, but in this last case [00:24:00] I said, look at the T-shirt. Does it say anything on it?
Kristin Taylor: Mm-hmm.
Richard Martini: Now? It could. Sometimes I go, no, it’s blank. Sometimes he’ll go, it’s white, you know? Uh, I then sometimes he’s wearing shoes, sometimes not sandals, not this last time she said, oh, there is something on it.
It’s the Grateful Dead. Now, if you’re looking for a metaphor for somebody talking to you on the flip side, I mean, look, you know, it could be that their subconscious really was just waiting to have that joke
Kristin Taylor: yeah, yeah.
Richard Martini: me. But all I can say is, here’s the thing. He says these things, so people say consistently, eyes that are brown with flex of
gold. They also say, ’cause I ask, why are you telling this? Why are you telling us an alternate story of your lifetime? Because he doesn’t, or we’ll get into that, but he doesn’t follow what the book says [00:25:00] happened.
Kristin Taylor: That’s where I wanna go.
Richard Martini: and he says, um, Richard, it’s not alternate if it’s true.
Kristin Taylor: This is
Richard Martini: so he’s consistently said that sentence, which is not something I’ve ever heard any human being ever say.
Kristin Taylor: exactly.
Richard Martini: And so it, it, you know, it, it’s a weirdly, deeply philosophical point. It’s not an alternate story if it’s
accurate or If it’s true, or if
Kristin Taylor: it’s true. Yeah. Okay. So flex of gold. So all these consistencies around the eyes, if you really look closely, they turn from
Richard Martini: Yeah.
Kristin Taylor: to brown and then streaks or flex of gold.
Richard Martini: And sometimes I must admit, not that I have to admit it, but sometimes people will say they’re like Hazel, like Mike eyes are with streaks of gold. So green in there, you see? So, and maybe even a blue gray with flex of gold. It’s the gold part that seems to be. The tag that he [00:26:00] bless you. Oh, and nobody bot today told me this Edcu Spitty two two oh for that sneeze.
Kristin Taylor: Well, that’s, that’s a, in a way, we’re not gonna go there, but your, your Catholic, Catholic background too is
Richard Martini: I do have one. Yes, I was. I was an altar boy.
Kristin Taylor: Right, right. So you, you have strayed a bit, one might say.
Richard Martini: Well now that’s, you know, I could debate that, which is, I used to think, you know, I knew that the, where the communion was kept, In the priest’s, inner sanctum, uh, the, there was a tabernacle, as they call it, and you oh, you, you open it up and that’s where the consecrated hosts are. Mind you, there are pieces of bread that have been blessed, but to a young kid, it’s like, that’s Jesus, don’t, you know, they’ve been blessed.
So that means they are the body of Jesus. So I, when they used to say that, I’d think to myself, Is there like a little miniature Jesus
Kristin Taylor: Well, I bet.
Richard Martini: like watching tv, like at the remote
Kristin Taylor: [00:27:00] He’s
Richard Martini: if you open it up. And I always, I always thought that would be a good movie.
Kristin Taylor: It would be a good movie.
Richard Martini: open up the Taber.
He’s like, hello, I’m watching TV here.
Kristin Taylor: Yeah, like Lily Tomlin, the incredible shrinking woman. Yeah. So, so let’s get to chapter one, the Breath of Cows, if we may, about the story of Mary and someone connecting with Mary.
Richard Martini: Very
Kristin Taylor: hope, and my hope really is, you know, having you on, in subsequent, um, episodes that we continue to flesh out this alternate story that he says it’s not alternative, if it is true.
Richard Martini: Absolutely. And I think it helps, I, I think it helps when you hear context for like, where did this chapter come from? What is this? So you read this saying, and here’s a person who is quote unquote channeling Mary. Asking Mary what it was like for you to give birth. And she’s coming up with these storylines, which of course, a jaded person could say, well, [00:28:00] of course what she’s saying makes sense, and et cetera, et cetera.
But I always say, look for the new information. Look for the stuff that doesn’t make sense, or the stuff that you never thought about before, because it gives a different perspective to it. So in this case, I was at a wedding of some close friends back in Connecticut. And the minister, young woman, uh, was very eloquent, very interesting, and I went up to speak to her after her to compliment her on her, you know, what she had to say during the ceremony.
And I noticed that she had a Tibetan tattoo on her arm. And then we started talking about Tibet. You know, I’m one of those guys who goes, yeah, I bet at Tibet. Anyway, so as we’re talking, it turns out she’s a shaman. And she’s had this long background, and so we start to communicate, uh, email back and forth, how you doing?
Et cetera, et cetera. I tell her a little bit about the research back when, this was some years ago, [00:29:00] and she said, oh, I have a friend who’s a Michael Newton trained hypnotherapist, and I, I wanna do that. I should do that. And so she does, and then she sends me the transcript. For her of her session. And within there, within that transcript of her conversation, I’m not around, somebody else filmed it or may recorded it.
She has an encounter with Mary. And so when she sends it to me, I then ask her, so have you encountered Mary before? I’m, you know, that same mindset, like, is you wearing a name tag? How do you know it’s her? And she said she had, uh, over the course of her life and. And then I asked detailed questions about that and it was, you know, like, what does she look like?
And so as she described it, in different times in her life, she had seen Mary as a different aged individual, not just the iconic, you know, looking up, but also as an older woman, [00:30:00] as a woman who had filled out. Uh, and, and so I just casually said, well, Could we have a, let’s just do a, this was before I did what we, you and I did the last time I was on the show with a guided meditation before I had sort of, I didn’t put her in a boat in a river, but I hadn’t come to that yet.
But I said, you know, let’s just see if Mary can come forward, we can have a conversation. So, and again, I, I try to challenge a little bit to see where the edges of the story are. You know, is this somebody who’s repeating what religious. Authors have written in the past that I’m aware of, or is this new information.
So I asked Mary a content question. So why is it that when you’ve appeared to people, let’s say, throughout your recorded history when Lords and you know, different places, the context of what she says was, is always so very, very simple. [00:31:00] You know, it’s not like a puzzle. It’s not like she’s. You would think, you know, you’re, you’re seeing somebody from another realm.
You, you would get like a, you know, how do we fix client? I don’t know, whatever, whatever it is. And she said, I always speak to people in the level I think they are capable of hearing.
Kristin Taylor: Hmm.
Richard Martini: I’m speaking from pure, uh, place of love. And I try to repeat that message of unconditional love for everybody.
Kristin Taylor: Yeah.
Richard Martini: I thought, okay.
Well that, that makes, that makes sense to me. And so then I just asked, uh, Mickey, her name is Mickey, uh, Bloy, b a l o y. And she’s subsequently written a book about Mary since I started this project, based on her conversations with her. So I asked her, um, you know, can you go, can you ask her what it was like to give birth?
What was that about? And that’s that chapter where she. [00:32:00] Talks about not the mythology of, you know, they’re traveling and they get to the, in the end, you know, there’s no ins and then they’re in a barn. Um, she just talks about being in this place, obviously nowhere else to give birth where there are animals.
And she talks about the feeling of an animal’s face when it comes over and breathes on you. And the warmth of that feeling. You know, not something you’d normally think about when you’re thinking about Mary. And then she talks about the longing for her family members, for a woman, for, for girls and her family to be around.
Of course, you know, families were much different in those, you know, I mean, they’re all the same, but I mean, there’s much more, uh, active participation, especially when something like this birth going on, you know? And. There’s also this element of fear that she talks about the fear of knowing there’s [00:33:00] something about her child that’s very important.
’cause it’s been spoken to her,
Kristin Taylor: Mm-hmm.
Richard Martini: it’s been talked about, and that brings this fear of, oh, I’m bringing this child into this world. Is that gonna be dangerous for my child?
Kristin Taylor: Yeah.
Richard Martini: Um, and the most interesting thing to me was the, uh, speaking of these Persian priests, Now they do get mentioned in later on in the book they’re talking about the Magi, which were literally a group of priests from Persia, you know, who were Zoroastrianism, you know, not from any, not from a Jewish tradition, not any other tradition, but Zoros predated, uh, you know, any kind of Judaism and you know, well maybe that’s arguable, but still their religion is a long time ago.
Parsis are now. Part of that group, and they live in India, and there’s, I’ve met, I know a few, but zoroastrianism this [00:34:00] light and dark and, uh, top prophecies, et cetera, et cetera. They have brought gifts to Mary. But what the, what’s what’s fascinating to me is the gifts were for Mary, frankincense is a mild narcotic.
If you fill a room with frankincense, it’s like you get a little bit stoned. It’s a healing thing. It’s used. As a healing, uh, you know, sort of method. Myrrh, which think about this story wise, twice in his life, he gets a lot of myrrh
Kristin Taylor: Yes, he does.
Richard Martini: he is born and, and later on in the tomb and the
Kristin Taylor: little foreshadowing here. Yes.
Richard Martini: I mean, storytelling wise, but myrrh, if you look it up, myrrh is a restorative.
It stopped bleeding. The baby’s not bleeding. The gifts were for Mary, you see? So the gold is for Joseph or Joseph. [00:35:00] The gold’s for him. The, the restoratives are for Mary. You see? So we’ve always had this kind of weird thing of like the gifts, they bring this and now in the book she mentions that it was weird that they brought these gifts.
’cause she’s thinking, are these gifts for my child? You know, clearly they don’t speak the same language. They bring these gifts, but the gifts themselves, Are restoratives, which we find out later on, get used again.
Kristin Taylor: Well, let’s, let’s even look at some of the, um, the storytelling and what we all come to think of when we think of Mary The Virgin Mary.
Richard Martini: That’s a great term. I love it. And of course, that was one of the first questions I asked Jesus. So what’s this thing about your, your mom being a virgin? He laughed. So, I asked them questions about, and you know, anybody who really looks, takes the time to look this stuff up, they can look up. Um, the, uh, there’s a, there’s [00:36:00] a story that’s been in the text.
It’s in Josephus, which is a, a Jewish historian who wrote about that era. And Jesus appears in his text, uh, that Jesus’ father was a Roman soldier. And as you find out in the book subsequently, That he was a very, um, high up guy in the Roman hierarchy. He wasn’t somebody who’s just running around the streets of Jerusalem that Mary was in his employment, was working at his home, and clearly that was the person who was his dad of European descent
Kristin Taylor: Mm-hmm.
Richard Martini: with.
I was gonna say, who knows what his eyes were. I, I haven’t asked. But, but the idea of, I mean, this is what comes out of these, uh, these interviews asking, so who was your, who was your father? Was it this guy? Um, I can’t, his [00:37:00] name is blanking right now, but there’s a name. Joseph had mentions his name and then I’ve asked that name a
Kristin Taylor: I remember it. I don’t remember it right off, but I remember that as well. So this
Richard Martini: you can look it up. But, you know, it’s that idea of they’re not trying to deny that. Jesus’ father is God. They’re just trying to say like, this is who his father really is. And so now here’s Mary pregnant, uh, you know, with a soldier’s child who is not gonna marry her or he’s already married and he’s already got a family,
Kristin Taylor: Very wealthy, prominent.
Richard Martini: wealthy prominence.
He would have to take care of that on her own, or maybe he would’ve taken care of ’em, I don’t know. But this guy who already has a
family whose wife is no longer in the picture, Joseph, the carpenter, and you, the Bible mentions that, uh, Jesus had brothers and sisters, so he’s already got a gaggle of kids.
He needs a wife to watch over them. So Mary, he marries her and it’s just, you know, marriage was a different [00:38:00] contract than it was. Than it is when it
was. But that being said, you know, it’s a wonderful, it’s, it doesn’t take away anything from the magic of the story of him choosing his journey, the fact that he was a prophet, which is literally the word psychic.
A prophet, somebody who sees into the future, and he, he hung out with prophets. He was in a scene. That’s what people, uh, talk about. The ene version of Judaism is, Very spiritual in terms of light and good and dark and et cetera, et cetera. And it’s, it sort of incorporates how consciousness works and from what these people say is that he wasn’t a scene and that, uh, you know, that’s, that was his upbringing.
And that at around the age of 12 or 13, just like in many countries, that’s when you’re assigned a wife. You’re going to be married by this time, and one of his friends who that was gonna happen. With him [00:39:00] said he was not about that. I’m not doing that. And that’s why he left.
Kristin Taylor: Mm.
Richard Martini: So when the time came for him to marry, that’s when he went out on the Silk Road.
And then the question was for me, ’cause I’ve been to the Silk Road and I know how difficult it is to get from Jerusalem to, you know, India or India, you know, to China, that’s the road. But in those days, if you ever read the book, Kim, by Rudyard Kipling, it is a little bit like. People would work for others to, you know, get, have a place to stay or to have food and you could travel back and forth.
And apparently that’s what he did. He traveled back and forth and each, and he was preaching what he was aware of from a very early age. You know, the tables being turned over and stuff like that. Talking about the kingdom of heaven being within you consciousness, the afterlife, the flip side. He’s talking about a, a world that he’s aware of that has [00:40:00] no hierarchy, no class system, and he’s talking about it as if that’s the reality.
There is no color, no cast, which was an anathema in that area and that region because everybody had this thing of the hierarchy of,
you know, the way you look, what your skin color was or is, or whatever. So,
Kristin Taylor: So, beautiful. So let me ask you, and I know I’m not gonna be staying in Fidelity with, you know, the intro and the
Richard Martini: Oh, we went, I am sorry. Wait, hold on. I time out. So I, I didn’t mean to dismiss the Virgin
Kristin Taylor: Oh yeah, yeah. Go back to the Virgin Immaculate Conception. It felt like you did get there, but go ahead.
Richard Martini: I, it is, but, but here’s the weird part about the Virgin Mary. It’s, and I could, I, I’m probably missing it up because I was a Catholic for a long time. Uh, and I have read the Bible and I have looked at all this stuff.
Um, they’re talking about g, about Mary’s mother. [00:41:00] She gets visited by the Angel, Mary’s mother.
Kristin Taylor: Oh,
Richard Martini: She’s the one. Mary is of virgin birth. It got convoluted,
Kristin Taylor: I don’t understand. You lost me there. Mary is of virgin birth. I don’t know what that
Richard Martini: Meaning she was the one who had no father supposedly.
Kristin Taylor: Well, it could mean she has no father, but it doesn’t mean there wasn’t the
Richard Martini: her father’s an angel. That’s the
Kristin Taylor: an angel. Okay. You have to spell it out for me, rich.
Richard Martini: Yeah. Yeah. No, that’s the, uh, so, uh, oh, Jesus had, okay. All right. Well, no, that’s what they’re saying. But anyway, I, I’m sorry. It’s the visitation, so, you know, forgive me, I get, I do get it mixed up. It’s the visitation that Mary’s mother has. Mary’s mother has the visitation from an angel who says Your daughter’s gonna be, uh, this give birth to this kid.
But yes, the virgin birth seems clearly, and according to [00:42:00] Jesus was what people do when they want to manipulate text in the Bible to argue their point of view and to rule from their point of view that idea that that birth is somehow a lesser. State of being than being on a pedestal.
Kristin Taylor: right. And I think that’s such a salient point to manipulate the text and to be able to enforce their rule of law and all of that throughout, throughout the book. Um, I
Richard Martini: my apologies to all those Virgin Mary people out there. See, I told you. He’s nuts. He is nuts.
Kristin Taylor: the messenger. This is just what the
Richard Martini: Well, it just shows you, I’m not thinking this out in advance.
Kristin Taylor: Yeah. Yeah.
Richard Martini: to look it up. Oh yeah, that’s right.
Kristin Taylor: Well, there’s so much information, and again, I listened to this a few months ago, so I’m like, I’m kind of forgetting this. I’m kind of forgetting this, but I’m actually kind of glad that I am because it brings up a lot of curiosity.
Like, what did they say and what did this person say? So speaking of, what did they say? Um, I [00:43:00] know at some point. Jesus talked about having subsequent lives since that life, but remind me, did he have prior incarnations to being Jesus and, and tell? Can you unpack that a little bit? I.
Richard Martini: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And of course, like I say, you know, so somebody says they’re seeing Jesus.
Kristin Taylor: Yep.
Richard Martini: It could be through hypnotherapy, which is a four to six hour session. As I noted, I’m not doing the questions. The hypnotherapist does the questions I’m filming, I might slip a note to the therapist to say, ask them this.
So whatever comes through comes through. In terms of the mediums who’ve seen him, and I’ve filmed a number who spontaneously Kimberly Ray, other people, Jamie Butler, there’s a wonderful interview with her and Jesus. It’s fascinating. There’s one online that people can look up. It’s with, uh, uh, channeling
[00:44:00] Where
Kristin Taylor: Meadows,
Richard Martini: with Lisa Met. Uh, Lisa met. And what’s unusual about that is I saw the video and heard somebody speaking during a video, and then I reached out to her and said, are you aware that his voice is on your video? And then I slowed him down. I sped ’em up, and it’s clearly somebody speaking. Whispering about the content of what people are saying on camera, however, record it at a different speed.
In other words, like the frequency of their conversation was here and the voices down here. I had to change the voices so I could hear it normally. Anyway, you can look that up online and actually hear those voices talking.
Kristin Taylor: Butler with, uh, Lisa Meadows on
Richard Martini: Um, Lisa Ves, you know, channeling So, Yeah, that’s another one. So mediums, hypnotherapy, and then meditation where I’m having a conversation with somebody in a coffee shop and I’m asking them to [00:45:00] access some memory of their life.
It might be a dream. In fact, one of them very strong was she had a dream and she thought she saw a ghost. And so while I’m accessing this memory of her 10 years old in London, she sees the ghost as Jesus. And then goes down this incredibly unusual path where not only do I ask him questions directly, and he says the same things he always says, but also it turns out that this person I’m talking to was a close friend of his and helped him and was standing between Mary and and her Mo and his mother at the crucifixion.
And I did not know that there was a third person there. And here she says her name and I, I, I swear she had no conscious awareness that there was a person by this name in the biblical text. So when I looked it up, I was, you know, mind [00:46:00] blown to see that she not only existed, but historically accurate. Yeah,
Kristin Taylor: I remember that part. I remember that part really well. So I can’t believe a time is going by so, so quickly. So did he have lives
Richard Martini: Oh
Kristin Taylor: incarnations prior to being
Richard Martini: you. Uh, well, I can tell you that in those interviews that I’ve done with him one-on-one, I’ve asked him, have you incarnated in, in another time? In the Jamie Butler, uh, Jesus interview, he says, 1964. He was born with, uh, as a, a brittle bone disease and that, and Dr. Mends knew what it was being a doctor.
She said, osteogenesis imperfecta. And he was like, yeah, that. And, but, and then it was like, oh, I’m so sorry. What a difficult life that must have been for you. And he said, no, actually, from my perspective, it was all love. Uh, I wasn’t aware that I was suffering, uh, but everybody loved me and the reason I was there [00:47:00] as this person was to teach profound lessons in love.
So, without getting too deep into the weeds of, you know, ’cause the question is, is have every time that you’ve been on the planet, have you had something? And his his answer is, well, uh, yes in a sense, because I’m bringing that same energy,
Kristin Taylor: And lesson of
Richard Martini: of love. of unconditional love, but the circumstances might be different.
Um, you know, and so this idea that, that he’s sent here by somebody to fix things, that’s a human-centric way of looking at it. He chooses to come at a particular place so he can help people.
Kristin Taylor: Mm-hmm.
Richard Martini: That’s what he said. And in, in, of course, in the interview, I think in the Jamie Butler interview, he, he even says that he’s here now, uh, as a
woman somewhere in
Kristin Taylor: Yeah, I remember that. So given we’re gonna have more conversations. And given that we’re very, very close to the end of our time, if you are gonna share [00:48:00] for today some of what he wants humanity to know or remember or connect to more, what are those messages? I.
Richard Martini: Wow. What a wonderful idea. Uh, for a question, um, I, first and foremost, it’s to realize that nobody dies. That we leave the stage, we bring a portion of our conscious energy to the stage. We wear props and we have costumes, and we act things out. But based on the data and research, once the curtain falls, we go home.
Very important to realize we didn’t come alone and we don’t leave alone. We have people who helped us get here, and we have people we volunteered to help while we’re here and they’re all there to greet us and applaud. So, and that’s important to realize that we can access those we love if we want to,
Kristin Taylor: Yeah,
Richard Martini: including him.
Kristin Taylor: [00:49:00] including him.
Richard Martini: And so if somebody wants to have a conversation with him, and this is what I’m, people will argue with me, as you can imagine, on on Quora, have a form gold hack in the afterlife. People just wanna say, I’m nuts. It’s fine, it’s fine. But I always say, look, you have a question for him. Ask him. He says consistently, he’s more than happy to stop by and help.
He can’t change the path you’ve chosen. He can’t alter reality. He can’t manipulate reality,
Kristin Taylor: Or he
Richard Martini: give you sorry
Kristin Taylor: I said or he won’t.
Richard Martini: or he won’t. But he can give you insight, uh, and he can give you the feeling of unconditional love. And he can change the paradigm because once you realize you can talk to him. Then you realize, oh, I can talk to anybody, my mom, my dad, my grandparents.
I can learn things from them and this will help me in my journey
Kristin Taylor: my journey, and [00:50:00] so Rich, have you ever endeavored to have a conversation with him one-on-one without someone bridging that gap?
Richard Martini: Well, what’s funny is that, uh, listen, I don’t know how else to put it, but he shows up so often
Kristin Taylor: You don’t need to
Richard Martini: The, well, yeah, that I, that I,
Kristin Taylor: like enough already
Richard Martini: well, no, he answers my questions in a very funny way. He’ll even say, Richard, the answer has not changed. You’ve asked this question before. You know the answer. And the idea is, and I have had, uh, awareness of some dreams where I’ve had conversations with him continuing.
And, and it’s, it’s more of a conversation, which is, well, what about this? And what about that? And what about this? So my thing is, it’s not about me accessing him, really. And I’m sure, you know, he’s always around. Uh, you know, he’s a, he’s a hilarious guy. How can I say? He makes me laugh. I sometimes make him laugh.
Kristin Taylor: [00:51:00] That doesn’t surprise me. That doesn’t surprise me. Well, as always, goes by so quickly. Thank you again. Um, anyone interested? And I can’t imagine that you wouldn’t be. It is such a good, I say read, I listened ’cause I love to listen to it as I’m doing other things. Um, the greatest story never told. I told by Jesus and those who knew him by Richard Martini.
Um, grab a copy. It’s riveting.
Richard Martini: so appreciate us doing this. Because as I mentioned before, it’s very uncomfortable for me to go out and try to sell it as a book. I, I’m sharing it as a book. It costs money to print it, but I want people to send it back, get a refund if they’re offended by it, and any stretch of the imagination.
Somebody gives it to you, return it if it, if it’s bothersome, but if you need help from him, let’s say, or from accessing. Ideas about unconditional love. [00:52:00] He’s a really good resource,
Kristin Taylor: Yeah, I mean, I know it’s incredibly controversial and at the same time when you really boil it down, it’s a book about love.
Richard Martini: unconditional love. And it’s, uh, you know, I mean, it’s a, it’s easy for me to say that, you know, love without condition. Um, I’ll just really quickly, uh, there was a conversation we had with somebody, a jaded skeptic. And it’s a wonderful afterlife. The question was, what or who is God? And a guide came through and said, God is beyond the capacity.
The human brain to comprehend is too hard. However, you can experience God by opening your heart to everyone and all things. Now that is consistently repeated by Jesus, opening your heart to everyone
Kristin Taylor: yeah.
Richard Martini: and all things, meaning everything has a right to exist. So allow. That there’s a reason for it to be here and allow it [00:53:00] to exist and try to love yourself key.
That’s the first. And then allow yourself to love other people.
Kristin Taylor: mm-hmm.
Richard Martini: Makes
Kristin Taylor: pretty right on to me. Yeah. Yeah. So Wonderful. Thank you, rich.
EIQ Media: Thank you much so much, Kristen. I appreciate it. You’re very kind. How I made it through is produced and distributed by E I Q Media, L L C. Elevate your Emotional IQ with podcasts and content focused on overcoming adversity, leadership, mental health, entrepreneurship, spiritually transformative experiences. And more.[00:54:00]